BLASTING FROM THE PAST: Feisty DLP presents with 67 candidates in Victorian poll

dlp Only in the Massachusetts of the South that is Victoria has the Democratic Labor Party been able to emerge – Phoenix like – from the ashes of the party that formally closed decades ago.

We had hoped that when the DLP first elected Peter Kavanagh to the upper house in 2006 that he would start getting around in a hat and a pipe to revive the old images of the party but he’s taken a very modern and serious approach to his duties.

And the revived party is a feisty little operation, even rather cheekily marketing themselves as “Labor for Northern Victoria” in an attempt to exploit the “mistaken identity” phenomenon that some Labor people argue comprise a proportion of the DLP’s vote these days.

Their Peter Kavanagh has been the quiet achiever of the Victorian upper house, not opting for the cheap grandstanding of the extreme-left Greens party but has instead earned himself a reputation as a sincere, thorough, intelligent and decent chap across the parliament.

A former teacher and barrister, he is a rather more polite and modest version of Kevin Rudd, speaking Mandarin fluently and being able to speak more than enough Japanese and Bahasa to order sushi and nasi goreng inthe appropriate dialect.

The business of getting elected to the upper house as a minor party isn’t easy and it’s almost a lottery for the candidates who can manage to get more than 2% of the vote for the last place. Usually they’ll get a better run than the majors on preferences so hope that’s enough to top them up until they’re elected. Certainly that’s how Peter Kavanagh got up the first time.

His success has inspired a successful Senate run for the party and now a record number in this “modern era” of the DLP, a grand total of sixty-seven.

And it’s a delightfully eclectic mix, with Geraldine Gonsalvez who hails from India and is running in the South Eastern Metropolitan region. She heads the only all-women upper house ticket in Victoria, unlike the elderly male dominated Greens party which is run by old rich white guys like Brian Walters and Bob Brown. It’s an ethnically diverse bunch too, with all five candidates on her ticket coming from different parts of the world.

The other upper house candidates include Peter’s brother, John Kavanagh who will definitely be in the mix for the last spot in northern metropolitan. We’ll forgive him for voting with members of the Socialist Left on the Moreland council on the basis that local government does bring out the worst in everyone. But he certainly has no trouble getting re-elected on the council so clearly has a following and has reasonable preference flow coming to him. While upper house MLC Bernie Finn is a brother in arms to all Richmond supporters, it would certainly be unusual to have two brothers in the Red Morgue at the same time.

The “Banana King” Pat Lamanna – a businessman and philanthropist – who has been advertising his candidacy in the nation’s most popular newspaper, the Herald Sun, has generously pledged his parliamentary salary to charity if elected to represent Eastern Metro and is favoured by the best draw on the ballot. So we’ll watch out for him too.

And while Greens candidates accept bucket-loads of cash from the coal industry they denounce and even trouser huge payments from Nazi war criminal multi-millionaire property developers, while others attack the Myki ticketing system without explaining they used to take money from Myki to tell senior citizens’ groups how good it was, the DLP means what it says and says what it means if Frankston candidate Denise DeGraaf is any guide. She’s the proud mother of ten.

With the election of a DLP Senator from Victoria, former blacksmith John Madigan being elected in August in addition to Peter Kavanagh and a record number of candidates in 2010, they really are breeding like rabbits.

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322 Comments

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322 responses to “BLASTING FROM THE PAST: Feisty DLP presents with 67 candidates in Victorian poll

  1. bolt

    “Bahasa” – that means ‘language’, you mean to say “Indonesian”

    good on the dlp though, is Pat Byrne still at it?

  2. Anonymous

    A party truly drawn from and representing mainstream Victorians. Patriots all

  3. not Mike Baird

    my daddy and I like the DLP – they also know that the bible is the literal word of god –

  4. anon

    A party truly drawn from, and representing, maintream Victoria. Patriots all.

  5. Get hip

    Nice slogan “for families, for workers, for life” but it needs an update to reflect how the kiddies speak these days… DLP 4 LIFE.

  6. Pollster

    The DLP and SexParty preference deal in Southern Metro has delivered a third seat to the Liberal Party. The DLP will lose representation in Western Victoria. They have a slim chance of picking up a seat in Northern Metro but would require over 5% primary vote and preferences from all other minor parties.

    Anyone contemplating voting for the DLP should think twice before wasting their vote

  7. arnold jago

    John Madigan is not a former blacksmith. He is a currently working blacksmith (in Ballarat).
    Best wishes

  8. Catherine

    A vote for a minor party is never wasted as it is passed on via preferences , if the minor party candidate does not get up.

    Someone like Peter Cavanagh of the DLP serves to “keep the bastards honest” and you can be assured that the DLP places the Greens last, unlike Labor, and until just now LIberal.

  9. SIMPLY THE BEST!

    The DLP are simply the best and are also the party for the lost, the least, the last!
    Now many wish ALP and the Green would remember who they are there for and who they are meant to serve!These two feudal/feuding parties have so lost perspective
    So go back to DLP School ie both ALP and the Greens and learn again how to be a genuine grassroots party of the battler that the DLP so aspire to be!
    We are so very tired of much of the emphasis on lawyers and doctors as Mps so hurrah for the likes of John Madigan. what a refreshing change. Go DLP at this election. DLP oi, oi, oi!

  10. Graeme

    Peter Kavanagh is the true revelation of all “the newies” in The Parliamentary Class Of 2006″. Hard-working, decent and honest to a fault; he is the exemplar of just what an MP should be about.

    And anyone who knows their family values and standards of behaviour and decency ‘for ther common man” would hasten to give them their vote. So, friends; give it a good thought; as we certainly need more people like him in parliament.

  11. Messrs Hart & Pell

    Solid citizens, sound gentlemen, and true patriots!

  12. Joe

    Good luck to them!

  13. Not Red

    Isn’t there some internal dispute, split, expulsions and legal action underway in the DLP as we speak?

  14. anon

    Peter Kavanagh voted with the Brumby government more than the Greens under Comrade Barber in the recently dissolved state parliament.

    It is a great pity the ALP preferenced the Greens at the expense of the DLP in Western Victoria Region this time around. Given the record of Mr Kavanagh it just doesn’t make sense.

    Voters should vote below the line. In Western Victoria that means a preference for Mr Kavanagh ahead of the dirty Greens and the Liberal Party if voters must vote ALP.

  15. namenamename

    When all parties use the ‘working families’ or ‘haaaard working families’ slogan it becomes meaningless. I suggest this seemingly new DLP drop it immediately. Also protestants don’t tend to like the DLP, so you may want to drop the association with that party.

  16. hmmm

    didnt the DLP keep the libs in power for years – they are no friends of workers- either are the ALP

  17. DLP fan

    Love the DLP! Wish them all the best.

  18. @bolt — “bahasa” does mean “language”, but it is also a common slang to mean either Indonesian or Malaysian (which are very similar). VEX news used the word the same way a local would.

  19. Anonymous

    a vote for the DLP is a vote for the liberals.

  20. Van Knackular

    As a vote for the Greens is a vote for Labor?
    DUH

  21. The DLP NSW Branch is different to the non-Mulholland Victorians.

    Our NSW Branch is secure despite the attempted takeover by a group unknown to us. There is much misinformation concerning NSW.
    We in NSW are Langites. Ironically, a few holyjoes who put thier hand on their hearts are either cynical,culpably ignorant or just plain dumb- in thier misapplication of the Party Rules to get rid of a real Branch and a real Executive.
    http://www.dlpnsw.com/

  22. ockerguy

    It is possible for the DLP to win 8 seats in the Upper House wit a vote of 5% in each seat. The DLP vote will definately increase state wide. I expect them to win 3 seats, with the 2 Kavanagh brothers and possibly Pat La Manna.
    Vote DLP for Families, for workers, for life.

  23. Strange how some Victorians cannot raise enough in donations for the DLP, yet lots of DLP members in Victoria have given money to John Mulholland.
    Looks like John Mulholland has lots of friends.
    I count myself as a friend.

    John Madigan on the other hand met with a group called the ‘regional branch’ in NSW.
    This group is unknown and not recognised nor sought entry in the real , the registered, the fully audited NSW Branch led by Secretary Mike O’Donohue.

    Some from this ‘regional’ ‘branch’ have contacted the NSW Electoral Commission after holding a joke of a ‘conference’ in which not many turned up.
    Confident that life will go on without these characters.
    They might like to consider running along to some bible outfit or to the Libs. They are not welcome in the DLP NSW Branch. We only accept Labor people who demonstrate a belief in accordance with NSW traditions eg Langite, unionists.

  24. fazza

    You are forced to pay union dues. A portion goes to the ALP. The ALP gives preferences to the greens. The greens want to shut industry down. Its clear th ALP only cares about its self. If the ALP loose this election watch the blood flow. At this point you will remember me, the worker, but its too late. Im voting Democratic Labor, at least they stand for something. The worker

  25. Confused

    Can someone tell me who’s really running this show in NSW. Michael Webb or Nick Williams? And have they got a club at Sydney Uni?

  26. Tim

    http://www.elections.nsw.gov.au/political_parties/local_government_registered_political_parties

    Michael O’Donohue runs the DLP NSW along with Michael Webb, Terry O’Donohue, Dale Higgins and Warren Roche- who form the Executive.

    The NSW Electoral Commission lists Michael O’Donohue.
    They established the Branch in July 2008 in Sydney.
    Looks like Nick Williams and associates need to have a reality check.

  27. Politikos

    @Confused, Nick Williams is running the legit. DLP in NSW, the same DLP that you see doing so well in Victoria and around the rest of the country. Ignore Webb and his antics!

  28. Bearbrass

    Some of the minor parties have terribly inadequate information about their candidates online. I can’t find out anything about my regional upper house DLP candidates Michael Murphy or Brendan Prendergast. Can anyone fill me in? The Christian Democratic Party (once Call to Australia) have changed their running name AGAIN to the “Christian Party” without telling anyone – and all I can find out on their site about their lead candidate in Southern Metropolitan, Mansel Rogerson, is that he has a PhD in “science” from Cambridge, and is a traffic scientist.

  29. Why spoil that glowing character reference with a comparison to Kevin Rudd? I was beginning to warm to him, and then… picture shattered.

  30. Tim

    Looks like the antics are from Nick Williams & associates.
    With an ongoing Executive, Branch bank account with three signatories recognised by the Commonwealth Bank, statutory audits, recognition by the NSW Electoral Commission seems to me that Williams lives by chutzpah.

    The poisoned dwarf J Goebbels once said:”if you are going to tell a lie, tell a big one” that is, in order to be believed.

    Since when may I ask do State branches disappear because of the dislikes or association with other DLP members that the other group have an aversion towards?
    Calm acceptance of the above credentials, coupled with the DLP Rules- if people bother to actually read them- makes for reality and dispels all needless confusion.

  31. DLP fan

    I agree with Politikos. Michael Webb, are you serious???

  32. Confused

    So Webb tangled himself and got the boot did he?

  33. DLP fan

    Yeh I think so…

  34. from facebook today

    Bernie Finn remembers when the DLP was a party of principle. Not any more! Now, they’re preferencing pro-abortion Labor MPs ahead of pro-life Liberals. What total frauds they are. Frank McManus must be spinning in his grave!

  35. DLP Federal President Mr David McCabe convened a NSW State conference on 20th November. A new executive was elected, led by NSW President Dr Simon McCaffrey and ably assisted by Vice Presidents Mr Robert Haddad and Ms Emily Dunn.

    The previous NSW executive was dismissed and new executive elected by the conference. The NSW DLP branch is continuing to grow and try emulate the success of the Victorian DLP branch. It will take effort and time but NSW Voters are keen to hear from a Labor party that is for Workers and Families.

  36. Michael Webb

    Very serious. Serious enough “DLP Fan”, “Confused” and “Politikos” to have the courage to use my real name.
    I guess the unreal ones extend thier philosophy to imagining that State branches can be overrun.
    A reading of the DLP Rules leaves no doubt that the kind of Federal and the un-real branch in NSW, can somehow hold conferences, give themselves position titles and so forth- to be outside all recognisable boundaries.

    There have been no expulsions of NSW Branch members at all.
    Read the DLP Rules and discover this fact.
    People can keep on repeating a line about who is expelled, who is the real Branch and who can be acceptable to the NSW Electoral Commission and who can hold control over the DLP bank acccount in NSW.
    In all these things O’DOnohue, myself and two other members of our Executive exercise all that is lawful.

    So funny thing that how Nick Williams and his little band keep repeating things that they have been unable to enforce before all these above institutions, eh.

  37. Gerry of Mentone

    Michael Webb,
    Thanks. Your informing the interested citizen of facts is good. The ignorant [and worse] require no interlocution.

  38. My date and time stamp showed that on 13 March 2010 at 14:42 Nick Williams emailed me and wrote and I quote:

    ” Hi Mike,

    I will send of the form ASAP. Unfortunately all my documentation is in boxes
    from the move and I dont know what my DLP membership number is. Do you have John Mulholland’s email contact? I can try and contact him for this.

    Kind Regards

    Nick Williams”
    ===========================
    Nick never did followup on the above. Entering the real Branch was his initial enquiry intention based on his own words.

    Since that time he has emailed me to see if a mutually beneficial outcome may be reached through face to face talks without pre-conditions.
    As we suggested that Nick that he acknowledge us ( which if he had decided to continue in talking) that we would offer him an apprenticeship period in which he could demonstrate loyalty to us on our Executive’s terms.
    If those who wish to coninue muddying the waters, I will continue to clarify with more email trails from those who are undermining us.
    To paraphrase a saying:
    if anyone wishes to muddy the waters, be my guest.
    For those who are more dignified than to accept rumour and flippant soundbites, I encourage the reading of the DLP Rules on these matters:
    http://www.dlpnsw.com/
    No amount of interstate excitement can be used to treat a real State branch like kleenex tissue.
    The Western tradition is based on safeguards called Rules, Constitutions and the general law.
    Thank God for these kindly and just traditions. Rule by subjective likes and dislikes is thankfully not what Australia is about.

  39. The NSW Branch of the DLP is committed to building the party membership base, engaging with voters and ensuring that the DLP can be a strong advocate for Workers, Families and Life.

    Distractions from discombobulated individuals only serve to highlight their ferciferous nature.

    visit http://www.dlp.org.au

  40. Ballaarat Diocese

    Anyone know why Labor is preferencing the Greens ahead of the DLP in Western Vic?

  41. Medici

    Interesting that a party with a slogan that includes ‘for workers’ does not have one single word in its policies supportive of unions, workers, ILO conventions, right to organise, right to strike etc;

  42. I agree with you Medici.
    That is why all this ‘pro’ this and ‘pro’ that sloganeering, along with the opposition to the rent resources ( mining) tax by somenon-NSW DLP people is a real worry to us in NSW.
    A fair dinkum Labor Party , in principle, would support a rent resources tax and be enitled to ague over the level of the tax later.
    I am a commited trade unionist and have no qualms abou the use of strike action to achieve my direct and personal/family socio-economic interests.
    I personally think that there are some DLP members who are not really Labor but rather are quirky obscurantist in their views.
    They are in the way of the original industrial groupers like Frank Rooney who was a sensible grouper. After a time, some new DLP members in history were limited in perspective because of overly cautious Catholic acionist understandings.
    It seems that there are some out there who wish to take us all down all the failed parts of the DLP history. How boring. Not for us in NSW.

  43. Nick Williams tried to cut a deal with me and also spoke with Mike O’Donohue. We were not impressed with his phone manner nor what he had to say.
    Strange how two ‘expelled’ members have to be negotiated with by Nick Williams, especially me when Nick emailed me to see if a mutually beneficial arrangment for BOTH groups could be arrived at.
    Anyone wishing to see the full email trail just email me at mikek40@gmail.com
    The public is entitled to work out the truth for themselves.
    There are also anti-Labor and anti union remarks from some in Nick Williams’ camp. I have also received ‘begone Satan’ remarks from a man called Paul Bennett.
    There is a lot more. There is also swearing, accusations of attempted murder and other bizarre insults.

  44. I’d Like to congratulate the Victorian DLP on a job well done.
    Not since 1973 has the DLP been so strong and united.
    Its amazing that in just 12 months the DLP have had an elected Senator and managed on this occasion to stand some 67 candidates.
    While are opponents will do all they can to talk down our success, the last twelve to eighteen months has seen to the party move ahead in leaps and bounds.
    Best of luck Victoria.

  45. So Webb tangled himself and got the boot did he

    He’s been gone for months. If you want him you can have him. He’s already been thrown out of more parties then I’d care to mention.

    I wonder where he’ll surfice next ?

  46. Gerard Flood

    Dear Mr Zegenhagen,
    if you do not wish to tell the truth, if would be better for what is left of your reputation to stop there.

  47. Hi there big Tony Z,

    Funny you should spread such falsehoods. Guess it is all part of the need to smear me.

    I state categorically, for the public record, that I have only ever belonged to two political parties in my life:
    1) the ALP and
    2) the DLP.

    In respect to the ALP, I have never been “thrown out”, disciplined, censured or expelled.
    If you like, we can walk down to Sussex Street where togehter I can show you my membership recors since leaving high school until 8th January 2001 whenI simply didn;t renew my membership.
    The reason I left the ALP Tony?
    Answer: no reason at all. I was romancing my fiancee at the time, having a good time and preparing for marriage (2003) and now have three beautiful daughters. Simply didn’t have the time. Lost interest. Left on perfectly great terms.
    I note the back fence fantasy stories from yourself and Boutros about the ALP. What need I say?
    Answer: glad to meet stable good mates like Michael O’Donohue, Warren Roche who both disliked your phone calls to them Tony.

    Tony, as for the DLP, your expulsion letter misunderstands proper charges/grounds and misquotes DLP Rules in the area of expulsions. I will begin to quote your letter, cite the Rules and allow the people here in the forum to work it out for themselves.

  48. If O’Donohue and myself are gone from the DLP Tony, why haven’t you taken over our
    NSW Branch
    the DLP Commonwealth Bank account at Surry Hills NSW.

    You sent us your letters about seven months ago and nothing above has changed.
    Why is that Tony?

  49. Nick Williams tried to cut a deal with me and also spoke with Mike O’Donohue. We were not impressed with his phone manner nor what he had to say.
    Strange how two ‘expelled’ members have to be negotiated with by Nick Williams, especially me when Nick emailed me to see if a mutually beneficial arrangment for BOTH groups could be arrived at.
    Anyone wishing to see the full email trail just email me at mikek40@gmail.com
    The public is entitled to work out the truth for themselves

  50. One of the criticisms of the NSW Branch is that it isn’t yet registered for NSW elections.
    You need 750 members.

    Meanwhile in QLD, Tony’s mob only require I think 500 in that State of Sunshine, yet haven’t achieved it.
    Anyway, that was and still is, none of my concern. Yet in NSW one defector uses the pahetic argument that people we didn;t get to 750 yet, this is one reason he is moving to the other group. Strange he hasn’t looked at South Australia or QLD. In SA the requirement was far less and basically the law allowed them to register because we have a politican in a parliament. Far enough, no problem with that and all is good however, in South Australia that loophole I heard is being replaced by a numbers requirement and they will have o recruit big time so as to maintain registration.

    Victoria is another story because of the DLP being historically more popular and numerous and maintaining membership since 1955 and also after 1978 when John Mulholland and other activists kept the flame alive.
    Terrible how people create unbelievable reasons to leave a branch. More incredible that they do not give the commn courtesy to tell the Executive man to man why they are leaving.

  51. Anonymous

    Can Tony Zegenhagen, Nick Williams or anyone else explain by what DLP process Michael Webb was supposedly expelled?

    http://www.dlpnsw.com/DLPNSW_Constitution.php
    http://www.dlp.org.au/party/rules-of-the-dlp

    129. The Federal Executive shall not discipline a division of a State Branch, or member thereof, without the prior agreement of the relevant State Executive, but, in a disputed case, may take steps to intervene in the management of the State Branch, as far as the Constitution and Rules provide.

    130. Where a State Branch of the Democratic Labor Party, or a constituted division thereof, acts in breach of the Constitution and Rules or otherwise against party solidarity or the principles of democracy, justice and fairness, the Federal Executive, where requested in accordance with the Constitution and Rules, shall convene a State Conference, chaired by the Federal President, to resolve an issue of confidence in the State Executive. The State President, or another member of the State Executive in stead, shall commence debate by moving to the effect, “That this State Branch of the Democratic Labor Party has confidence in the State Executive”. If the motion is lost, each position on the State Executive, and for delegates to the Federal Conference, shall immediately become vacant, and the Conference shall thereupon elect a new State Executive and delegates. Where the motion is carried, or where a new State Executive becomes installed, the Federal Executive shall withdraw, and the State Branch shall resume control of its own affairs.

    131. Where a State Branch of the Democratic Labor Party, or a constituted division thereof, acts in breach of the Constitution and Rules or otherwise against party solidarity or the principles of democracy, justice and fairness, the Federal Executive, requested by a majority of State Branches, may suspend the State Branch and thereupon order its expulsion from the Federation, subject to an appeal to a Federal Conference called as soon as practicable within twelve months from the date of due notice of appeal being lodged with the Federal Executive. Delegates from the suspended State Branch shall have the right to vote at the Conference but upon any decision upholding the expulsion shall immediately withdraw. The former State Branch shall thereupon forfeit all rights to use the records, funds, assets and name of the Democratic Labor Party and a new State Branch may be established in its place.

  52. Yes indeed the NSW Branch continues to build and you are not in it Nick.
    I have never received your membership transfer; and never a red cent in membership fees.

    You had your chance and you blew it buddy.

  53. Kevin Butler

    @Pollster: Deal between the DLP and the Sex Party?? Some deal when you’ve been preferenced 20th and 21st out of 26! Like we need MORE pornography!

  54. DLP fan

    TO “facebook today”. That is completely false. The DLP are the only true pro-life party. Bernie Finn is not known for a man of his word, although I do give him credit for being pro-life himself. He has been known to lie in order to put himself in a better position. Also, isn’t he working for pro-abortion Ted Ballieu? Isn’t that like the pot calling the kettle black?

  55. DLP fan

    p.s. “facebook today”. Why quote someone else? Stand on your own two feet with your aguments. Bernie Finn’s opinions are no more important than any body else’s.

  56. nick Williams

    webb you can blog all you want. You cant ignore the facts that since you and your buddy john have been expelled the Reality is the party has grown. You are a divise and awful person who should have never held an office bearers position.
    This was clearly evident when you walked straight up to me and used abusive language in front of a church… Sick

  57. Anonymous

    hey, it barely got 2%… yawn!

  58. Paul De Graaff

    I am a DLP member in Victoria. I didn’t join the John Mulholland Party nor the Kevin Butler party. I joined the DLP. Reading the rubbish above I can only say that some of you need to look clearly at your loyalties. The party conference in Victoria made clear their choice of office bearers. John was present at that conference and had no objections to any of those members being there. If John had a committment to the DLP then why did he not accept their decision? Why did he choose instead to rely on legalese and trifles and costly court action. None of this is in the party interest. It is only self interest. I was personally very disappointed by John’s decisions. Instead of being in a respectable and honourable position as elder statesman and advisor to the party he is synonymous with divisiveness.
    Please give us the case details for the Supreme Court Litigation. That will have a court decision and will tell us all quite clearly what the result was, because someone is telling us porky pies. If you are all committed to the DLP then it is long past the time when you put this pettiness behind you and gave your efforts to the ideals of the DLP.

  59. Michael Webb

    Williams, spare us all your false sense of hurt. You are an entryist who doesn’t give a toss for the Rules.
    As for swearing, you are being precious. There is only one person worse than a snob and it is a Catholic one.
    People are sick of your precious tut tutting.
    Grow up Williams and spare me your sanctimony.

  60. Michael Webb

    Williams, spare us all your false sense of hurt. You are an entryist who doesn’t give a toss for the Rules.
    As for swearing, you are being precious. There is only one person worse than a snob and it is a Catholic one.
    People are sick of your precious tut tutting.
    Grow up Williams and spare me your sanctimony.

  61. Michael Webb

    Nick Williams, my wife and I did not apprecoaye your threatening phone call to my home that evening.
    I began by saying;” Hello Nick” when my wife handed me the phone.
    You then proceeded with pathetic threats with raised voice. I said nothing. You then hung up.
    Pathetic and awful fella.

  62. anon

    The ALP are stuffed they have lost really good MPs but are still stuck with that [deleted – racism] Perera.

  63. Michael Webb

    Meanwhile, all NSW Executive positions since 2008 remain unchanged.
    Rule 65 of the DLP Rules is above resepctive level auhority, not Federal intervention.

    I also resolve not to change my behaviour to satisfy your sanctimony.
    The Cardinal will need to act against future repetitions of the use of church property for political meetings.

    Nick Williams, you are not and never have been a member of the NSW Branch.
    Your words about being in authority are fantasist.

  64. Michael Webb

    The onlt way to get beyond 2 or 3% primary vote is for the DLP to focus upon the industrial and union issues that relate to family mena nd women as well as single people who are having a tough time getting a pay increase due to the pathetic excuses of managers ( who always seem to get increases are telling sob stories to their workforces).
    As long as some people over-act and over-do the emphasis on pro life, the DLP cannot compete with the current CDP, Family First and the like.
    Emphais is the reality of the word Labor- and pushing mining tax, 35 hr week campaign for all full time workers and opposing economic rationalism etc should be the emphasis. The reading of less culturewars stuff and replacing it with the writings of the genuine such as Arthur Calwell, Jack Lang, Eddie Ward, Joe Cahill and other Labor greats is the way out of the sanctimonious ghetto that some DLP people have got involved with in social networking etc. Why don’t some of you people go and attend union meetings, join up and associate with ALP rank and file for once in your sheltered lives, huh!

  65. Syphologist

    The only way for the DLP to get more than a token primary vote is to invent a time machine and warp back to the 50s!

  66. Michael Webb

    The way for forward for the DLP is
    to be truly Christian by courageously breaking with other alleged ‘conservative”Christian’ parties, groups and networks.
    For example, if the DLP developed a policy on recognising the rights of Aboriginals to both the use and ownership of lands that were originally taken off them 200 years ago through the exchange of coloured beads, rancid flour by our illustrious British explorers who had the poor buggers make a mark on contracts they did not understand.

    Another example, is the acceptance in principle of mining super profits tax in principle.
    A reading of all the implications of the socialisation pledge signed by ALP members and by ALP Groupers who went on to become the DLP.
    There is a madcap and neo-conservative take today on the great social encyclicals where some people adhere to a pre-original sin version of Adam Smith’s invisible hand, of alleged harmony between employers and employees/unions.
    Arthur Calwell and even a small handful of realistic Groupers like Frank Rooney understood the need for the socialisation of the means of exchange and of industry to the extent necessary to remove/reduce anti-social effects in our nation.
    Some people need to get out a little more, read more widely on Labor and social history rather than have this oversimplified pro-life/boss friendly version of Catholic social teaching(CST).
    CST actually has a more Laborite sympathy if one goes beyond the silly neo-conservative Catholic interpretations that are being lapped up in the self-referencing ghetto groups today.

  67. Suspicious

    I think Webb is a mole…

  68. Michael Webb

    More Votes under the O’Donohue Team. Let’s compare:

    The Official Figures

    DLP in NSW in 2010 Senate Election got 0.75% of the Senate vote= 30,939. ( McCaffrey & Cullen) http://results.aec.gov.au/15508/Website/SenateStateFirstPrefs-15508-NSW.htm

    DLP in NSW in 2007 Senate Election got 1.26% of the Senate vote = 52,977 ( Mike & Terry O’Donohue) http://results.aec.gov.au/13745/Website/SenateStateFirstPrefs-13745-NSW.htm

    Source: Australian Electoral Office

    52,977 minus 30,939 equals 22,038 MORE votes for the O’Donohues.

    So the nonsense about the real fair dinkum Branch being hopeless etc is just your bogus group’s propaganda Mr Williams. ‘Regional’ branch my bum. In your dreams.

  69. Suspicious

    …either that or a sociopath!

  70. Michael Webb

    Dear ‘Suspicious’- if you and some other folk around here use your real names, there would be no finks here, let alone moles.

  71. Michael Webb

    There are some good discussion going on on Facebook’s Canberra Declaration Group right now.

    I am good friends with ALP mates there who are trying to help the Canberra Declaration people appeal to people beyond the silly ‘conservative’ take on things.
    Please join us.

  72. Suspicious

    You’ll forgive me for using a pseudonym – it is just that you have a wide reputation for accosting people by phone, email, blog or apparently even on their parish steps. Having not met you personally I can only go by your increasingly bad reputation. When I hear such volumes of reports from so many respectable people of how abusive, caustic and retentive you are, it leads me to draw one of two conclusions – either you are a martyr who is being horribly and unjustly maligned – or you are an a-hole. So which is it Mr. Webb? Saints are rare so I suspect the latter…God forgive me if I’m wrong.

  73. nick Williams

    @Suspicious: never a truer word said. This man Webb is a toxic blight on the party. imagine walking up to someone and telling them they are f@#ked then going of to berate a Parish priest then counsel us all on Catholics social reaching. Webb is a joke.

  74. nick Williams

    there is unity within the DLP. All state executives support the federal executive. There is like in a bunch of apples a rotten one or two. Aka Michael Webb.
    Webb is the chap that harrased the DLP only setting member peter Kavanagh just after an illness, much as the same as what is written above, for what reason? The reason being that he like his buddy John are not party people. Rather divise chap with a really bad sense of right and wrong.

  75. nick Williams

    Webb has thought all along it was nick williams trying to take over the NSW DLP, but it has never been about that, rather it is about returning the party to the members instead of the two michaels living in their ivory tower navel gazing. As an elected official within the party you represent the members, but Webb and o’odonohue never did that. In fact they never informed their membership or executive that they had recieved misdirected funds fron john mullholland when he was in charge of the pure.history will judge who had the best intentions for the party and the pages wont show the name Webb or o’donohue.

  76. Equally Suspicious

    The only real winner during this sad argument is Michael Webb’s Internet Service Provider. Does that man have a modem permanently affixed to his spleen? Seriously, is your name Mr Webb or simply Mr Web?

  77. Gerard Flood

    Michael Webb,
    while it is a reality that public contesting with inferior antagonists will be in an intellectually etc degraded discourse, it is sad but encouraging to observe just how obtuse your opponents are willing to be revealed as. At whatever cost, your efforts have publicly estabished that.
    I hope that your integrity engenders more of the same, now, wherever, and always.

  78. Suspicious

    Gerard, maybe your the man who can explain how a man of such’íntegrity’ earns such a bad reputation and so widely? I’m a little worried…if it can happen that easily and undeservedly to Mr. Webb…well it could happen to anyone couldn’t it?

  79. Paul De Graaff

    @from facebook today: My wife contested the Frankston Electorate where she preferenced the prolife Liberal Geoff Shaw, (who won the seat from the incumbant ALP member Alistair Harkness}. Your sweeping generalisation is patently false since it implies that all DLP candidates preferenced anti life ALP members. I think Frank McManus would have been very proud of our efforts and would understand this politically misleading rhetoric. He would have no trouble working out the actual fraud. I’m not surprised you didn’t put your name to this.

  80. Paul De Graaff

    What a wasted opportunity! Anyone who visited this website, excited by the possibilities of a revitalised DLP will, I’m sure, leave it like me, completely disillusioned. I am contemplating the many hours I spent in an election campaign in which the stated representatives can not even be civil. You are a disgrace! References are made to things which are demonstrably untrue but are presented here as fact. I am ashamed to read this drivil and see references to being “Christian”. What an affront to Jesus Christ. It is small wonder that the population in general cannot stomach politicians. This blog drips of small minded pettiness and triviality. Why don’t you go out and try to be good and productive citizens and work for the betterment of others instaead of your own self interests.

  81. Michael Webb

    Well it does. Just look at the many unjust statements made against John Mulholland to take a case in point.

    Some of the sanctimonious ones were sending priests to him in order to get him to back down. There were even a few morals police who wanted to find out if Kavanagh went to Mass and how often etc. Also, a couple of the moralistic ones wanted to introduce a morals test for party office holders. All this occurred before that faction disappeared and the new group took controlin Voctoria.
    Meanwhile in NSW, those who sided with John Mulholland became another new bunch of opponents who curiously couldn’t see the light being offered to them from Victoria.
    I couldn’t care less. I know good people when I see them. I hold JOhn Mulholland and Michael O’Donohue in the highest esteem.
    I will be loyal to them regardless of what happens.
    Loyalty is something I will maintain as it is a key old Labor value that sadly is missing today.

  82. Michael Webb

    Nick Williams is engaging in falsity again, this time regarding Peter’s illness. Peter has said that it was a group of zealots in his home State of Victoria whom he believed led to his heart attack.
    I learnt of this subsequent to that.
    So for Nick to blame me is pathetic. I have two emails from Peter in which this is made perfectly clear despite our different positions in relation to Mr Mulholland.

    There are a few chaps in Victoria who harangued Peter over issues like civil registers for gays etc.
    I personally have no problem with such matters so long as marriage is upheld.

    For anyone to later on email me or to claim that I am responsible for the man’s heart attack etc is absurd.

  83. Michael Webb

    Nick Williams parrots what others in his group say “there is unity within the DLP”.

    There has been no unity for two years. Even when John Mulholland was running the DLP at Federal and Victorian State level- there were two or three other groups who had their own views. One group then replaced John; and then another.
    Meanwhile in NSW we have never had such issues and still don’t because Nick and his group are outside of the real State Branch.

  84. Suspicious

    If you re-read Mr. Williams post you’ll see that he said “… harrased the DLP’s only sitting member Peter Kavanagh just after an illness.” I don’t think this is tantamount to blaming you for his illness – just that you ‘harrassed’ him after his illness. So the charge is harrassment…

  85. Michael Webb

    Dear Suspicious,

    You might be forigen if you list for me examples of for example
    “by phone” “parish steps”.

    Please present your list.

  86. Suspicious

    What! You want a published list of your detractors? Why not post up a poll? Vote YES if you think Mr. Webb is a man of integrity. Vote NO if you think he is…well otherwise. Watch ém come out of the woodwork…

  87. Suspicious

    The trouble with blogs is there’s no emoticon for ‘toungue-in-cheek’. If the unity of the DLP and a little light on the political landscape wasn’t at stake Mr. Webb, your antics would be just laughable. Just curious…how many wrangles have you been involved with just this year alone and just on blogs? You’re the kind of man who would have those numbers. I’m sure you catalogue every bit of correspondance no matter how insignificant in the hope that you can use it someday.

  88. Michael Webb

    Yes, a list of detractors would be good.
    If you have non-detractors that might be even better to help yourcase against me now wouldn’t it.
    I don’t get involved with nor have a need to detract your character because O’Donohue and I just present the facts which are the DLP Rules.
    Thus far, some people have been playing the man and not the ball rather than quoting from the Rules that protect the NSW Branch.

  89. Suspicious

    What about leadership? Are you the man to follow into the fray? I think not. Everyone likes to back a winning horse – even the purist. Only a fool would back a horse that has been scratched. I’m sure the appropriate bodies will rule if that applies to you. Let’s hope it is not as protracted as the Mullholland affair.

  90. Michael Webb

    Suspicious,

    I am unsure what you mean by “wrangles”. Also unsure about “antics”. What “antics”?
    Politics is not about sitting quietly in a lecture room. It is about discussion where people agree or disagree.

  91. Suspicious

    If it is in fact true that you are unaware of how widely you are held in disregard, then there is not much else to say. It just makes your pathology a worse. Many have steered away from involvement with the DLP purely because of you. Sorry to be the messenger…but a man of ‘íntegrity’ who was a true ‘party man’ would stand down in the face of this.

  92. Michael Webb

    The only pathology I see is coming from you ‘Suspicious’.

    All you are doing is playing the reasonable anonymous man. Who are the ‘many”? Our membership count is increasing.

    Tonight, two financial members who have heard about what has happened have decided to continue with us after reading my letters about the situation with Williams; and also after reading O’Donohue’s letter.

    True Party men or women do not “stand down” because of a few worthies with sanctimonious airs.
    Small Parties would never grow ( or is that grow up?)if they decide to hold onto such low rent forms of conformity that even a high school student who reads his/her novels and plays quickly discovers.
    Seems to me that a few worthies never seek to take the lessons found in English literature to heart.

  93. Suspicious

    You have blogged so extensively Mr. Webb that you have even created categories…so I’m the ‘reasonable anonymous man’. (not that unflattering really) I’m betting you’re the ‘gotta have the last post man’ or maybe the ‘always try to take the high moral ground man’ or maybe simply the ‘little belittling man’.

  94. Michael Webb

    See there is that question of pathology again ‘Suspicious’.
    So you suspect there just might be some integrity and moral standing in what I have said regarding Rules and the virus of entryism that afflicts small parties in particular?
    As for your last suggestion of belittlement you need to sort your own head out mate. I am not belittling you, so why make the suggestion?

  95. Suspicious

    Ruling whether or not your expulsion from the party by the DLP federal executive was licit is not my jurisdiction. Nor (I’ll hazard) is it within the scope of the rank and file. Whether you win a few members over by flashing a letter or two is neither here nor there when it comes to constitutional issues – I hope you’ll agree. Good upstanding leadership on the other hand is something the average person is better equipped to judge. I have heard nothing but good reports of Mr Williams, Dr McCaffery and the newly elected NSW state executive as compared to many reports to the contrary of your modus operandi, Mr Webb. You are not even close to the man we need in the current political and social crisis. You referred to literature? Well the messenger usually gets shot – so shoot me. P.S. my money is on ‘gotta have the last post man’ – goodnight.

  96. Michael Webb

    Judging whether or not someone is “the man for the job” is besides the point. Don;t run from the Rules ‘Suspicious’. The ‘cnference’ had the usual suspects, two interstate men, and about 10 other members.
    With over 400 members in the real Branch, which of them received r wanted an invite from a bogus branch?
    Yes modus operandi is an important concept ‘Suspicious’. Could someone ask this small group to actually go read the Rules?

  97. nick Williams

    Mr Webb, your appeal that we have not applied the constitution and rules to the state conference, again highlights your ineptitude and further illustrates you not having an appreciation for the democracy in the DLP. Out of this whole situation why did you harrass a priest to shut down the conference ? Yes i have seen the emails and letters you sent him .This is troubling for a person who wanted to lead a party.

  98. nick Williams

    well Mr ‘gotta have the last post’ Webb. Regale me with how I have done the wrong thing and you and o’odonohue are the ideal dictator/s to lead the party. I am ready for your usual diatribe.
    When this all pans out Webby and the die is cast, i look forward to discussing the result, but do not walk up to me and say get F@#ked again , without saying hello first

  99. Michael Webb

    Dear Nick

    I give you my full permission to publish both the two emails and the one letter sent to Fr Anghel and to priests in the surrounding Deanery.
    The public see that it was all courteous.
    Please go ahead Nick.
    By the way, I did not say GF when I saw you. I said to both you and Robert haddad that “you are both f’ed”.
    Context: that your little bogus branch will not go far.

    Nick, try and be accurate in the above matters OK.
    By the way i do not say hello or shake hands with people who are going the low act of promoting bogus branches against lawful ones.

  100. Michael Webb

    Parish halls are not the place to conduct poltical meetings, particularly bogus ones Nick Williams.
    Cardinal Pell was overseas at the time but the Chancery have been notified. I didn’t find them much chop as they couldn’t find it within themselves to make a decision to cancel your rort without word from the Cardinal.
    Boy, don’t you guys break all the golden rules of NSW church history!
    Soon, things will change as the majority non-DLP parsihionres learn of this bogus conference and the people involved.
    Now back to the subject Nick Williams- begin quoting the Rules to prove your case.
    Bet you can’t. Shifting gears like your online slogans about ‘moving with energy’ to the NSW election huh.

  101. nick Williams

    i see you did not refute my claims about abusing me or berating the priest mr Webb. Because they are the facts. Walking up to people and swearing at them is a disgusting way of introduction. Yet you believe you are the better person to lead the DLP in NSW. Fortunately for the party there are hard working Labor men like Dr Mccaffrey and Mr Haddad prepared to lead and show vision. The same can never be said about yourself.
    You and O’odonohue were expelled by the federal executive, they called a conference in the interests of NSW DLP members and the members elected Dr Mccaffrey to lead the party.
    I have no doubt that you like your buddy john mullholland will not accept the decision but that is inconsequential as you are not a member of the DLP( as decided by the federal executive).

    You are a hypocritical gentlemen mr Webb. You have held meetings in church halls and religious affilated buildings. Get off you holier than though horse.

  102. Anonymous

    what a bunch of losers, you vote was a mere 2%. Get a life and join a real political party!

  103. Anonymous

    Peter Kavanagh is on the dole. He couldnt even increase his vote from last time.

  104. DLP fan

    The DLP just needs to market itself better. Their policies are far better than everything else that’s on offer.

  105. Michael Webb

    It will take more than marketing. It will involve assisting the claytons crowd who crow on about being ‘pro’ this and ‘prp’ that and ‘real Labor’ to actually having real Labor policies such as a mining tax, Aboriginal land claims in country Victoria and a rejection of the “2 for 1” policy put out by Mr Zegenhagen because most Aussies do not want third world immigration nor economic ‘refugees.
    They need more than a charisma transplant. A real injection of union members and more mainstream and less culture war scare the natives speak would help the Party greatly.

  106. Michael Webb

    Nick, please publish my informative and courteous two emails and one letter sent to Fr Anghel. People can then make their own judgment then.

  107. nick Williams

    @DLP fan: agreed. Want to help DLP fan ?

  108. DLP fan

    I help here and there, but I can’t help out 100% because of other personal committments. I’m with you though!

  109. Nick Williams

    Again you jest Webb. Informative and courteous is hardly what the priest had to say about you when you berated him about hiring out a hall.

    Telling peole to get F’ed, intimidating DLP members and a priest is far from leadership material Webb.

    Your actions listed above typifies your hypocrisy.

    Enjoy your further blogging Webb, I am sure it wont be productive, considerate or have any sembalance of fact.

  110. Michael Webb

    No I do not jest Nick. Please call me Michael as it would help yourcase against me not to appear so aggro. Not a good look for a worthy Nick. Remember you have an image to uphold in front of the holy ones.
    I restate, please publish no only the emails, letters but also messages left on voicemail. All of it was courteous. This is no jest.

  111. Michael Webb

    Describe the intimidation.
    Take it to the police.
    I am ready.

  112. Michael Webb

    Senator Jack Kane and Frank Rooney
    the original groupers were never happy with Father Paddy Ryan and the often non-Labor types who later joined the DLP who wanted to turn it into a holyjoe pretend Labor outfit.
    Sadly the original ALP Groupers like Kane and Rooney lost out to the worthies.

  113. Time for the anti-mining tax supporters in the DLP to leave and go join the Coalition.
    The NSW Branch of the DLP by comparison supports the mining tax as part of being real Labor. Not a slogan but reality. Can others in the DLP match the reality.

  114. Jack Kane and Frank Rooney being real Labor, and not cardboard cut outs, have written that they support the socialisation pledge and not some watered down cautious unbalanced travesty from tiny groups who give an impression to holding the truth on Catholic social teaching. These men would also have supported a super profts mining tax. Especially Frank Rooney. No ersatz versions of social teaching from these men.

  115. Google Chris Curtis DLP Victoria.
    He also is a true Labor man, not ersatz.
    No room for diocesan church employees who defame others. Don Ford reported what Haddad said about me when I spoke in person with Don tonight.

  116. Nick, the facts and their semblance will be found if you publish what I wrote to the Homebush parish. Publish it before I do. Then let the viewers decide.

  117. No jest. Publish. I have copiesthat I have handed out and if anyone wants one email me. No problem.

  118. Race Matthews is a great ALP advocate of co-operatives and has a well rounded approach and understanding of Labor policy.
    He is a great Victorian Labor man.
    A friend of the former DLP candidate for the Riverina in NSW whom I meet weekly.

  119. Confused?!?!

    So who is winning the faction fight – The Webbs or the Zegenhagens?

  120. There is no faction fight in NSW by the Williams’ group because they aren’t even in the Branch- despite all the tumult and the shouting. There is however, a fight on the way with Zegenhagen and McCabe if they so wish.

  121. Confused?!?!

    Both sides are saying that those on the other side are not members and have been expelled. Does that mean there are two NSW DLPs?

    Will we have multiple DLP candidates running against each other in elections?

  122. DLP Friend

    Nick Williams, I fully support you, but a word of friendly advice: don’t let yourself be brought down to a certain person’s level. I think a better way to have dealt with it would be to just repost the warning on the official DLP website, leaves you on the higher moral ground as continuing to debate with some people only gives them legitamacy they don’t deserve. It would also make the DLP look more official from the perspective of those reading this article and ensueing comments who don’t know much about the DLP.

    Keep up the good work!

  123. Catherine

    If Webb and Williams were concerned for the good of the party they would bicker offline.

  124. No. As no State level registration through the NSW Electoral Commission has occurred for the coming March 2011 election, anyone can run. All would appear without the Party name on the ballot; under their own moniker.

    750 registered members are required for State registration in NSW. Less in other States. Funny how some of our opponents attempted mileage when they criticised us for not being registered when they are not registered at State level themselves. South Australia is registered under the legal loophole of the DLP simply having a sitting MP in any State. But I heard that that loophole is now closed off and that they will have to recruit a few hundred members to remain registered.
    Federally, no probs- as the requirement is easily met.
    If we in NSW were registered at State level, then the six dollar note group who are claiming they are a fiver could shout this until the cows come home but they would not be permitted by laws to use the DLP name at a State election. Unless they convinced the NSW Electoral Commission or the courts in time for the 2015 subsequent State election.

  125. The “official warning” is not respectable and is an airing of dirty laundry in itself ‘DLP Friend’. High moral ground you think? Read the Rules.

  126. Confused

    You would have thought that the DLP would be too small to fight over power (or should I mention lack there of power). I guess the question now, after failing to establish who is in charge with two conflicting opinions and two conflicting websites, is going to be whether they run any candidates for the NSW state election

  127. Confused

    P.S. I’m the real Confused. All I can say to the other Confused?!?! – Get another code name before trying to be too clever

  128. Anonymous

    @Catherine: you are quite right Catherine. Apologies for online bickering.

  129. Michael Webb

    I would like the letter I sent to the PP of Homebush parish published in full please Nick Williams. Also Boutros’s emails made to me.

  130. New DLP financial member

    Everyone – for the sake of the DLP party Australia Wide – please stop this online conversation now.

  131. Michael Webb

    It has been out in the open for two years now. It is best to keep it out in the open to flush out those who are conducting entryism upon the Party.
    Just as it is a good thing to put out into open and public view, any inhouse church abuses of authority which will eventually lead to healing in the areas of abuse and of reducing general maladministration. Flush ’em out I say. Bring these things to light.

  132. Michael Webb

    This dirty attitude that somehow it is OK to override a State Branch will be fought openly for all to see. It is best to bring about a sink or swim situation.
    I will defend and uphold the Labor value of LOYALTY to the real State Branch and to Michel O’Donohue who re-established the Branch. Those who are johnny come latelies popping out of the woodwork need to be opposed at every turn with the utmost vigour. Australia needs to always attempt to outroot the rum corp mentality. It is the kind of arrogant and blaise vanity that afflicts so many Australians. It must never be accepted.

  133. Michael Webb

    The NSW Branch will work towards opposing Federal decisions that do not consult us in the selection of Senate candidates in future.
    I thought it a disgrace to have two middle class doctors from Sydney’s rich suburbs chosen.
    This is not the 1940s.

    Our Branch will work to ensure that working class blokes and gals who are active trade unionists are chosen.
    Real Labor means unions and it also means strategies that includes the blokey union leaders and members- the bruvvers of the Trades Halls throughout NSW.
    Those who wish to treat the DLP as some kind of monastery and impose conditions upon the members eg morals tests (which is not really about propriety but a convenient way to deal with those whom we personally dislike)should go elesewhere and get someone else to hold their hands. It is best for the holyjoes to join the nearest pro life/pro business outfit and leave real Labor people who do not want peer review false pietism to follow them around like a bad smell.

  134. Confused

    Flushing it out will help people like me

  135. Robert Haddad

    I attended the DLP State Conference held at Homebush on Saturday 20th November. The number in attendance was more than 2 times higher than any number who ever attended State branch meetings led by Messrs Webb/O’Donoghue. Any comments alleging a “small attendance” are both partisan and ignorant, especially when made by people who arrived late and were not permitted to enter.

    I belonged to the Webb/O’Donoghue led branch in the capacity as 2nd Vice President from July 2008 until August 2010. During that time I came to lose all confidence in the leadership of Webb/O’Donoghue and their ability to organise and achieve any thing of worth.

    My reasons for losing confidence can be summarised as follows:

    1. Failure to be personally, accurately and fully informed about the events concerning John Mulholland and the Vic State and Federal Executive.

    2. Failure to be notified that the NSW branch was holding monies given by Victorian members – this matter was never mentioned within State Executive meetings until August 2010 and was an action that was never formally put to or accepted by NSW DLP members.

    3. No NSW State Conference was ever held during 2008, 09 or 10.

    4. No NSW DLP delegates were ever publicly nominated or sent to National DLP conferences in 2008, 09, 10.

    5. No NSW Branch meetings were ever held from Oct 09 to August 2010.

    6. No campaign support was arranged for Dr Simon McCaffery’s NSW Senate candidature in the August Federal election.

    7. The public and scandalous behaviour of one of the NSW State executive members (including a sterotypical racist comment about Lebanese supporting the Liberal party because they are lovers of money) who was never subsequently disciplined.

    8. The personal abuse and insults I have received from that same Executive member who regularly employs the use of f-bombs to intimidate any one who disagrees with him. Thuggish verbal and physical abuse might be a tradition within the ALP but it has no place in the DLP; neither does a class-warfare mentality that holds in contempt the middle class and Catholic pro-lifers. The DLP is a party for all Australians and people of good-will, with a preferential option for workers, families, moderate unionism and small business.

    After receiving both sides of the story I am convinced that John Mulholland is no longer the State Secretary of the Vic DLP and that the Federal Executive has purview to discipline State Executive members for disloyalty; hence the expulsion of Webb and O’Donoghue, as sad as it is, is justified. The new State Executive elected and installed on November 20 is now the legal NSW DLP leadership team and the only team that will achieve any effective results in the immediate and long term future. The alternative is stagnation and irrelevance. The choice is clear.

  136. Michael Webb

    Robert Haddad:
    You attended out State Executive and never raised any of your concerns.
    Secondly Michael O’Donohue rightly rejected your holyjoe moralism aimed at me. Michael O’Donohue is an Australian BLOKE just like me. Get it bud. BLOKE. In Labo Party’s we do not kowow to apologetics lectureres. Go to a monastery if you cannot handle the heat.

  137. Michael Webb

    Haddad, you made it clear fromthe start that you were a busy man with your job and apologetics stuff. You also haven’t renewed your membership dues after your first year according to the Secretary Michael O’Donohue.
    So spare us your diatrive.

    Also, tell us all about your long droll list of reasons to breal ties with one of your best friends David O, will ya. He was a grromsman at your wedding. Tell us about your long list of expectations for him.

    Spare me your sanctimony. Go back to your non blokey affective airs at Polding House. You dusgust me the way you look down from on high towards other blokes. Rack off.
    Put that on your list of sins against me now.

  138. Michael Webb

    Haddad you are a slander. You are a detractor with righteous airs.
    Dredging up things for droll cheap shots.
    Go to Confession you creeping Jesus type you.

  139. Suspicious

    @New DLP financial member:
    I’m telling you all now…the only way to end this thread is to let Webb have the last post…or possibly even the last 7 posts! Attrition is his game. Who else do you know who will make 7 consecutive posts! I mean really people…this is aberrant behaviour! As far as dirty laundry goes, Webb lives in it – he’s probably wearing the same pair undies from his Labor days…maybe it was the stench of them that ejected him?

  140. Michael Webb

    YOU never organised things on the Executive. Why do YOU place all the onus upon him and I?? YOU were a member TOO.
    You have no reaons put pathetic excuses arising from your shopping list mentality of distinctions and delineations. I think you have rehashed all the answers and solutions to life so many times via your apologetics and apply this in an obnoxious way towards other men. No man should have to put up with your version.

  141. Suspicious

    …sorry that was 9 consecutive posts…I just counted!

  142. Michael Webb

    Your new found friend Boutros never attended our meetings. Never saw any fees from him.
    He has sused the F word on email to me recently. Are you going to get him to confess to YOU Haddad?

  143. Robert Haddad

    I think anyone currently reading this blog only needs to read Michael Webb’s current comments to determine whether he is suitable for any public political office. Michael, the more you write, the more my case rests.

  144. Michael Webb

    Haddad I will work towards getting
    a mainstream middle of the road HUMBLE Australian to run your office. We need thinkers,not rehashed non-developmental apologetics from you in any form.

    Also your former best friend has joined us. He is a good family man, our David.

  145. Michael Webb

    The more your droll arrogance and superiority complex shows Haddad. I find that typical of you.

  146. Robert Haddad

    By the way, Michael, I have paid my latest DLP subscription. I did so via the DLP website before 20 November in order to be eligible to speak out against ineptitude, stagnation, abuse and hysteria.

  147. Michael Webb

    Robert is insincere as he retracted his earlier intentins not to get personal.
    Here is the proof:
    fromRobert Haddad
    toMichael Webb

    date1 October 2010 13:37
    subjectRE: Robert
    mailed-byccdsydney.catholic.edu.au

    hide details 1 Oct

    Michael,

    I couldn’t do anything last night as I was out of home giving a talk.

    I plan to redraft my comments tonight removing any personal reference to you and to forward it on to Nick by 10 pm.

    Regards,

    Robert

  148. Robert Haddad

    Michael, the insincerity is on your part. Our agreement was effectively torn up by you after the personal abuse you hurled at Nick Williams and myself outside the venue for the 20 November meeting. The flagrant and public use of f-bombs directed at Nick and myself cancelled our agreement. You might think that such language is acceptable in politics but never in the public sphere. Such behaviour is symptomatic of ALP thuggery, a culture you seem intent on bringing into the DLP. No thanks.

  149. Michael Webb

    Awwwww, YOU good Christian YOU !!! Not. You gave him a shopping list. Oh what a wonderful bloke you are when you wrote to me about David:
    fromRobert Haddad >
    toMichael Webb >

    date29 September 2010 19:34

    “As for David &^%$, yes we are estranged and he knows the reasons why as outlined by me in a detailed email to him in February 2009. This matter is long standing and not relevant to the DLP. I have taken advice about my concerns to my spiritual director”

    I suggest you take more than spiritual advice. I suggest you get humble and stop God bothering your fellow man.

  150. Michael Webb

    Awwwww, YOU good Christian YOU !!! Not. You gave him a shopping list. Oh what a wonderful bloke you are when you wrote to me about David:
    fromRobert Haddad >
    toMichael Webb >

    date29 September 2010 19:34

    “As for David &^%$, yes we are estranged and he knows the reasons why as outlined by me in a detailed email to him in February 2009. This matter is long standing and not relevant to the DLP. I have taken advice about my concerns to my spiritual director”

    I suggest you take more than spiritual advice. I suggest you get humble and stop God bothering your fellow man.

  151. Michael Webb

    You are an exaggerator extraordinare. There were no “f bombs”. And I don’t need to give satisfaction for one F. Except to say that I intended it to highlight that you cannot censor another bloke. Not on Haddad.

  152. Michael Webb

    Robert tell us abou your shopping list of sins when you wrote to one of your best friends David O. He has contacted several people about your attitudes to him too with his words etc.

  153. Michael Webb

    Robert tell us about your shopping list of sins when you wrote to one of your best friends David. He has contacted several people about your attitudes to him too with his words etc.

  154. Michael Webb

    Abuse of employment, using a church of the archdiocese. Pell cannot assist you now.

  155. Robert Haddad

    Michael, you are getting in trouble here. There was a witness to your appalling behaviour – Nick Williams. No one was trying to censor you. As soon as you arrived you hurled abuse at Nick and myself before we spoke a word – there wasn’t even a polite hello beforehand. Either your memory is fading or it is very selective.

  156. Michael Webb

    Robert- David your former best friend has joined us.

  157. Michael Webb

    ‘ALP thuggery’- what a snob you are.

  158. Robert Haddad

    Abuse of employment? What are you talking about? I never arranged the venue. Nick Williams did. I only came to participate as a member. Your continued insinuations and threats against my employment is empty and vain hot air. The Cardinal judges me on my work peformance, not my politics. By the way, he might be interested to read about your preference for Bishop Cremin over him as Archbishop.

  159. Michael Webb

    Haddad you wrote about your former friend “As for David, yes we are estranged and he knows the reasons why as outlined by me in a detailed email to him in February 2009. This matter is long standing and not relevant to the DLP. I have taken advice about my concerns to my spiritual director”

  160. Michael Webb

    That’s fine. Tell him. I do prefer David Cremin. Also David Obeid your former best friend has joined us against you.

  161. Robert Haddad

    To be opposed to ALP thuggery is not snobbery, it’s decency. Learn the difference and your behaviour might begin to change.

  162. Michael Webb

    Please tell him.

  163. Michael Webb

    You would go well in Iran or Arabia as a morals policeman.

  164. Michael Webb

    Your position and ‘branch’ are hot air.

  165. Michael Webb

    Mr Obeid has joined us. Told us about the list of sins he received.

  166. Michael Webb

    he was you best friend robert haddad. hmmmm.

  167. Michael Webb

    most informative talks held with him and others about the letter you sent to cut ties. read oscar wilde and get humble

  168. Michael Webb

    you participated in politics on church property whilst also being an employee of the archdiocese. you won’t live this down haddad

  169. Michael Webb

    politics is not a monastery haddad. try Iran.

  170. Paul De Graaff

    I can’t believe this is still going. Please look to my post of November 28 12.35pm. Just give us the case number details from the Supreme Court action here in Victoria. We can get a copy of the transcript of the case and see what the result was. This should clear up all this nonsense. Someone knows the details so you shouldn’t be afraid of sharing them with us all.

  171. Michael Webb

    I wasn’t there to say hello Haddad. I am not concerned. I was there to count. No trouble.

  172. Suspicious

    Have you ever directly recruited or spoken in a Parish Mr. Webb? Is this a misdemeanour?

  173. Michael Webb

    there was no hurling of abuse and what i did say I stand by and am comfortale with. it is what entryists deserve.

  174. Paul De Graaff

    @New DLP financial member: Save yourself. Leave this site alone!

  175. Paul De Graaff

    Mr Webb. Case number details, please.

  176. Suspicious

    Paul, do you suspect as I do that the real issue here (other than Mr. Webb’s demonstrated unsuitability to hold an executive position)is loyalty to John? Has the Victorian problem effectively spilled over the border?

  177. Wary

    Suspicious I am wary of motivating factors undercover. Are you suspicious,or even wary, of accusations of attempted murder made from parliamentary email accounts emanating from Spring Street?

  178. Suspicious

    Wary…your post is way too cryptic for me… if you read my first post I was suspicious of a mole – not murder.

  179. Michael Webb

    Selective memory Haddad. You tore up your agreement before the 20th November when your list was put on Facebook.

  180. Michael Webb

    Robert your friend Boutros emailed the f word to me recently. will you act and call his behaviour appalling? I don’t care if you do nothing. I am not into morals policing.

  181. Suspicious

    If everyone following this post could indulge me and take pause for just a moment…is it just possible that Mr. Webb is an agent of entryism and that his regular use of the term forms part of his smokescreen? Here is the Wiki definition for entryism (as you read consider the roots of the DLP and ‘The Split’ and consider Mr. Webb’s stated Labor leaning) “Entryism is a political tactic by which an organisation or state encourages its members or agents to infiltrate another organisation in an attempt to gain recruits, or take over entirely. In situations where the organisation being “entered” is hostile to entryism, the entryists may engage in a degree of subterfuge to hide the fact that they are, in fact, an organisation in their own right. Entryism does not involve dissolving the small organisation into the larger one. Entryism is often (but not always) done secretly and often in organisations run on Leninist lines. The strategy of entryism is as old as politics itself.” Now I ask myself…if Entryism is as old as politics itself why is it such a crazy thought that we might stumble across it here or there? If Mr. Webb were an entryist he would be considered a somewhat successful one if hobbling the DLP was the aim.

  182. Michael Webb

    Boutros is on your ‘executive’. he used the f word on email. Um mama ! Is that your reaction Haddad? It’s not mine as I am not into your kind of piety.

  183. Michael Webb

    Oh Suspicious you crack me up. Now which Leninist organisation am I am member of? Haha.
    Isn’t it that kind of thinking that might be cause for you to change your moniker from ‘Suspicious’ to ‘Paranoid’?
    Thanks for the laugh.

  184. Suspicious

    …or I am giving Mr. Webb too much credit for intelligence? Then again, for an entryist intelligence might not be necessary – belligerence might be enough.

  185. Suspicious

    …isn’t that what an entryist would do? Just laugh it off? You weren’t laughing when you threw the term around.

  186. Michael Webb

    I’ll take your challenge Suspicious.
    Le’s have a look at the views of those in the DLP.
    Tony Z admires Joh Bjelke; also opposes a super profits tax. Williams- declined to say if he’s ever voted ALP- to both me and O’Donohue when we spoke with him (ONCE). Google Greg Byrne or ask me for his email trail on his pro libertarian business ideas. Boutros Z- emailed me to say he is not Labor and prefers personal rather than union intervention at work. adam O googled him and found he was in the Libs. And so it goes. And they chant ‘real Labor’. Funny as !

  187. Michael Webb

    Suspicious if you are intelligent read rules 20 to 30, 65 and many more to determine entryism.

  188. Suspicious

    …and if you are NOT belligerent I charge you to leave this thread for the good of the DLP.

  189. Michael Webb

    google greg byrne australian conservative
    read his views
    tell me if he a DLP candidate appears to you to be ‘real Labor’.
    HOHOHO.

  190. Michael Webb

    There are two former Liberal party members. Found on one on google.the other member fessed up in an email to me and to my friend Tara Maree when we discussed things. ‘Real Labor’? Hmmmm. Give me a broom.

  191. Michael Webb

    meanwhile DLP members Stephen C in Sydney and Suryan in Victoria are vocal advocates of the ming tax, as am I and The Secretary of the Branch in NSW. Now this my friends, is REAL Labor. Be fair dinkum.

  192. Michael Webb

    Stephen L that should read sorry for the typo.
    Stephen is a conscientious reader of social teaching the German Jesuit way, rather than the Acton way. So too is the former DLP candidate for the Riverina as well as Warren a lifelong NCC member but truly Laborite. No neo-con economic views from us lads. No way.

  193. Michael Webb

    Suspicious, your phraseology leads me to think you are quite highbrow.
    eg., when you say things like:
    I charge you to leave this thread
    and use the passive aggressive form of “Mr Webb”. Sounds rather noncey.
    Michael or Mick will do.

  194. Michael Webb

    DLP members Stephen L in Sydney and Suryan in Victoria are vocal advocates of the mining tax, as am I and The Secretary of the Branch in NSW. Now this my friends, is REAL Labor. Be fair dinkum.

  195. Suspicious

    If you were a mate I would.

  196. Michael Webb

    As long as you are ‘Suspicious’ we cannot be mates, even if I try.
    ‘It takes two baby’ as the song goes.
    LOL.

  197. Michael Webb

    Can I call you Sus for short. Now not inferring suspect by any stretch of the imagination now. LOL.

  198. Suspicious

    Even if I were not ‘Suspicious’ we could not be mates Mr. Webb.

  199. Suspicious

    Your idea of mateship is so warped that you hold Mr. Haddad’s groomsman and friend aloft as a trophy. (I’ll bet you were scratching around for a best man) I don’t think you’ll have his loyalty long…if you have it at all. I can’t imagine he would like his name used on this thread any more than the other names that you have dropped – as is your way.

  200. Michael Webb

    I must admit that one good way to avoid picking up toxin from the usual small group of professional airs n’graces right-wing fellow Catholics is to have actually lived through better times and to have met far more kinder, reasonable and far more Christ-like human beings.
    I think for example that one fo the best human beings in Australian poltics as a kid growing up in the 70s and 80s era was the former Deputy PM, Lionel Bowen. This good man used to get criticised by the kinds of turncoats I have had the misfortune to encounter in these neo-con times.

    Australia needs more Lionel Bowens. What it needs less of are obscurantist turncoat misreadings of Australian Catholic social history to NSW. Not my kinda Catholics. Not most people’s.

  201. Michael Webb

    The feeling is mutual. I prefer the Lionel Bowen kind of Sydney Labor Catholic to the highbrow Victorian kind anyday. Obscurantist turncoats have no place in my estimation.

  202. Michael Webb

    Suspicious, with your commanding range of highbrow vocabulary how about you consider giving gee-up speeches to sporting teams, collecting your fee and watching them get defeated?

  203. Suspicious

    A command of the language never stopped a man digging a ditch in the ‘old days’ – or vice versa. Some of the greatest men I’ve known were well educated working class. Do I need to remind you that Christ himself fitted this mould? You create a false dichotomy. This tendency of yours is consistent with your inability to engender unity.

  204. Suspicious

    Well it looks like just the two of us…and I’m a bit sus on that – goodnight.

  205. Michael Webb

    No turncoat obscurantist pretend Labor types in the DLP are much use in bringing unity.

    Lionel Bowen and all the other ALP Catholics that some of you knobs have put judgments on over the years as part of the turnocat thinking over the years in the DLP is disdainful to your average, good, if organisationally challenged average Labor family.
    They do not need your kind at all.
    History records you as myth makers once the Comms were defeated in a few key unions. After that, the rest is unintelligent mythmaking once the crisis had past.

    Chris Curtis, former DLP in Victoria is a ood man and explodes your false’professional’ Catholic kind that is too delicate to put the hand to the wheel or conscience salves about whether or not to join the ALP.
    The DLP has been dormant for donkeys years since 1978 in fact. In all that time- your kind have just been the disdainful turncoats that Gilroy and Carroll were so spot on about.

    The hyperventilation created about a resurgence was something that blind freddy could see through.

    The DLP is only good for getting a few key upper house seats to be useful for life issues and for union work co-operating with the genuine union ALP brothers who need our support against the pragmatists rather than the ‘Left'( a much misused glib term).
    When the DLP wasn’t around after 1978 except in a few electorates the most sensible thing to do is to join the ALP.
    The ALP is a burnt out shell not because of it being the ALP. The trouble with some turncoat/obscurantist DLP types is that they are not union members, not involved, and haven’t the guts nor the humility to join a major party like the ALP to make a difference. Just whingers hanging on the unrealistic hackneyed ideas.

    Several key people in the Executive in NSW myself included have no qualms about getting involved in unions, strikes. We do not invoke the High Priest Caiaphas mentality of being ‘defiled’ if we get to close to the ALP or the unions.
    Similar anology about the more Catholic than the Pope stinking thinking of the SSPX’ers and others sweaaring blind to be Catholic whilst being outside and not actually accepting the living tradition. Similar situation by anaology with the ALP and DLP.
    Long term is networking with ALP and union members to build up the ALP for re-union with the DLP. This is the original grouper intention of the DLP as it should be. No room for schism. Just as the SSPX’ers have no excuse in the religious realm. Same shit.

  206. Paul De Graaff

    I wouldn’t have thought something as simple as court case numbers would be hard to pass on. Never mind I’ll get them myself.

  207. Confused

    Why don’t you just rejoin the ALP Michael? I’m sure they’ll let you run for a seat in the upcoming NSW state election

  208. Haha 10 points. I’ll pay that one. Confused.

    The burnt out shell of the NSW ALP will have more careerists abandon ship as the ALP in NSW will be out of power for a decade I reckon.

    No better time than the present for genuine non-turncoat Catholic Labor people who are not into false conscience salving to get back in for the good fight.
    Joining with the decent naturalism of the rst of the rank and file, putting aside the ‘professional’, false ersatz play acting version of the Catholic faith that is so Victorian and so obnoxious.

    And cooperate with the few genuine DLP people politically too.
    The DLP has a good strategic role in Upper Houses if it is seen to be pro trade union which is the position of the original groupers, unlike the fruits that came along later with no Labor background. We can do without the claytons crowd who pose with the word ‘Labor’ without meaning it.
    Religious input into poltics can only be done by way of permeation i.e., being humble (unlike turncoats) and mixing with rank and file whoe are not as stuck up or as ultra religious and of seeing the good in natural qualities of people. Grace builds upon nature. The too explicit approach of some latter day DLP-ers trying to over-spiritualise the political domain has never and will never work. It is self indulgence and will be punted by the majority of people who don’t share superiority mindsets.
    Aquinas said grace builds upon nature. The Gospel and social teaching work by way of permeation only.
    The average rank and file ALP branch member will only respect those who are genuine Labor and who are not ashamed to be unionists.
    This strane networking in whcih some DLP people just love to be seen or to congratulate the non-Labor side and non-Labor politics at times is what will kill off the DLP. If you have humility to be real labor (unlike the half smart/half two bob snob radio advert for ‘real’ labor used at the Federal election in Victoria) there is hope for some of you characters.

  209. Nick Williams only had a handful of people at his ‘conference’. Meanwhile over 400 members of the real Branch, some fo whom Williams set out his invite to, never bothered to go. Invalid conference.

  210. Nick Williams only had a handful of people at his ‘conference’. Meanwhile over 400 members of the real Branch, some of whom Williams set out his invite to, never bothered to go. Invalid conference. Also the deadwood who drifted to you- many were not financial, some never joined but had plenty to say for newbies.
    Bennet loves the Libs; Adam did until when? Any Labor people there? Fruits !

  211. Haddad, the Executive is not your Servant. You had your chance to aim up and get as active as you are now criticising myself and O’Donohue.

    And don’t associate middle class Catholics with all things sugary spice,nice and pro life.
    Ordianry families too are people of life also. You cannot give out droll afterthoughts with your non-Labor sham summary above.

  212. Suspicious

    How many people were present when your ‘executive’ originally convened Mr. Webb? Was there even enough members present to warrant a meaningful vote for office bearers? I’d say you were more or less self-appointed. There are plenty of people out here who know the state of play so stop assuming general ignorance and bluffing your way through this war of attrition.

  213. All totally above board. Form and matter all satisfactory in the re-establishment of the Branch. Met all the Rules as determined by the Federal Secretary John Mulholland, the folk legend who is your nemesis. All members notified by mail. ALL !!!
    So bugger you.

  214. Harry Highpants

    Is it just me or does Webb spend his entire life online?

    Be it facebook, vex or some news website you can rely on Webb to point out the errors of your opinion within minutes of you airing it.

  215. Suspicious

    But how many were present? You’ve denegrated the recent DLP conference based on the attendance figures…so what was the head count at your inception?

  216. Who are you to even ask? You’re only here for my entertainment.

  217. Suspicious

    …evasion.

  218. The title of the article “Blasting from the Past…” should I suggest be changed to

    “Being Prepared for the Past”.

  219. Suspicious

    I’m beginning to suspect that your strategy in posting multiply and consecutively is to bury direct questions in an attempt to avoid answering them.

  220. Confused

    It should be called “Be prepared for the future”, or should I say lack there of

  221. Suspicious

    Still waiting for the answer…

  222. Suspicious

    Mr. Webb…(contrary to your statement that I’m here for your entertainment) I’m actual here to confirm your reputation as a ‘post whore’ amongst other things…I think the jury is in on that one. I haven’t seen any other members of your executive posting here though they are no doubt following the thread. I’ll bet they’re cringing…you would be a constant embarrassment to them I’m sure.

  223. I’m a bloke,
    I’m an ocker
    And I really love your knockers
    I’m a labourer by day,
    I piss up all me pay
    Watching footy on TV
    Just feed me more VB
    Just pour my beer,
    And get my smokes,
    And go away

    Or take me as I am
    This may mean you’ll
    have to fetch another can
    Rest assured,
    That if I start to make you breakfast
    I’m going to extremes
    but tomorrow I’ll get shitfaced,
    and today won’t mean a thing

    I’m a bloke
    I’m a yobbo,
    and me best mate’s name is Robbo
    Winfield is me cigarrete
    I dress in flanellette
    Shearer’s singlet that is blue
    Throw in a few tattoos,
    You know you wouldn’t
    Want me any other way

  224. I’m a bloke
    I’m a yobbo,
    and me best mate’s name is Robbo
    Winfield is me cigarrete
    I dress in flanellette
    Shearer’s singlet that is blue
    Throw in a few tattoos,
    You know you wouldn’t
    Want me any other way

    Or take me as I am
    This may mean you’ll
    have to fetch another can
    Rest assured,
    That if I start to make you breakfast
    I’m going to extremes
    but tomorrow I’ll get shitfaced,
    and today won’t mean a thing

  225. AmusedConfused

    I think Confused is a ‘post whore;. He’s constantly writing garbage – get a life!

  226. You can keep waiting.
    Why should I care?
    The DLP in our estimation, being realistic, has thrown everything at the Vic State eelction. It confirms for us tht with 67 candidates tht this was the last hurrah, the last shot from the locker.

    Being realistic New South Welshmen, there is no one cringing. We all realise that the show is a small one around the country- always was and always will be.
    The best is a few Upper chamber palriamentarians here and there; and no more.
    A souffle doesn’t rise twice.

    The rest is about beig mature enough to stop your dingo turncoat thinking that has delusions of grandeur about some big revival.

    Get real.

    The Libs were supposedly on their last legs during Bob hawke’s time; and during Premier Neville Wran’s time in NSW.

    Now it is the ALP’s turn for 10 years of decline.
    Nothing has changed.

    The idea that the DLP or the other minor parties can ever unite is fairyland stuff. Further, it would be wrong of a professed labor Party- the DLP to ever contemplate such an awful fate.

    International Communism is gone; now we have cultural Marxism through political correctness and the anti humanist forms of the bad kind of secularism.
    The DLP should hitch its survival on addressing those things whilst pumping up a genuine pro union ( which is the main form of being for the worker). The electorate thus far is not convinced and is voting Green.
    Humility dicates that we acknowledge the few material industrial issues nd taxes on mining that the Greens are embarassing the ALP ( quite rightly over) and then have the nous as DLP to take up those things without this pseudo religious rightwing caution that is the virus and has been since the Groupers had won thei earlier battles. The armchair sleuths who came along AFTER the good guys Kane, Rooney- lost thier way in my view. And the DLp needs to get back to industrial issues just like the SDA did and Mercer did when they walked away from the NCC.

    Aside froma few good people having a balance of power in upper houses , it is best to treat fellow good blokes and gals who are moving into the ALP as the real deal ( because they are), network and even go join them.
    If pseudo religious snobbery cannot be put aside then the DLP will wither and the poor young kids from TMC may go on to become old fogeys and angry young folk before the age of 45.

    Wake up and read the signs of the times. Be critical rather than selective in your historical readings on Australian politics.

    Life experience and talking to grandparents who are young at heart is far far more productive than accepting at face value the blinkered and jaundiced right wing views of some from your own side.

  227. Suspicious

    What an uninspiring vision you have…it is a wonder you’ve recruited anyone at all with that dismal outlook! If you were a student of history (or had any faith to speak of) you would know that God likes long odds. Furthermore, you have made fleeting references to the Social Teachings of the Church. Where does that body of work factor in your vision for the DLP? Is it worth more than a mere mention – because I don’t see much evidence that you have apprehended it. You do realise that “…the unity of human society cannot be built upon ‘class’ conflict” (Quadragesimo Anno #88) This might be a good place for you to start to correct your thinking. The particular Irish, Catholic, working class heritage of Labor (and therefore the DLP) that we have in Australia (though factored in) should by no means constrict the vision and the application of CST. In fact some of the Pontiffs who promulgated this body of work were aristocrats. I believe it was Hitler who noted the difficulty of repressing the line of Pontiffs and the Church (as opposed to a monarchical line of succession) because you never could predict where the next leader would arise from. Like in the case of Giuseppe Sarto who was a poor working class boy who went on to become the great St Pope Pius X. Get with the program Webb…your vision is narrow, petty, uninspiring and paper thin.

  228. Robert Haddad

    Michael Webb keeps speaking (or is that shouting?)on behalf of the DLP yet he told me that in the August 2010 election he voted for the Christian Democrats and gave second preference to Julia Gillard’s ALP-Green aliance. Work that one out …
    101 posts so far from Michael, none calm, none rational,none polite. Abuse, rants, insults, heckling the order of the day. Is it any wonder people are shaking their heads as they turn away from this version of the DLP?
    Use your work time to do work instead of attempting to represent a party you didn’t even vote for.

  229. Paul De Graaff

    @Suspicious: I think loyalty and friendship is a wonderful thing. But true friendship sets a friend straight when he makes a mistake, it doesn’t urge him to continue on the wrong path. I think John Mulholland is a good man and he has much to offer the party and am hopeful he will come back to the party. But this nonsense is exactly that. If you’re part of a democratic group then sometimes you have to work with a democratic decision, even when you don’t like it.

  230. At the Federal election:

    I voted DLP in the Senate 1 and 2, then Hutchins at 3 etc – a below the line Senate vote.
    In the House of Reps I voted ( in the abscence of a DLP candidate) I voted:
    1) Christian dem
    2) ALP for Ed Husic

    etc.

    A couple of rapid pro lifers online were attacking the ALP so just ot stir them up I said I voted ALP at number 1.

    LOL.

  231. Stephen Crittenden of the ABC easily defeated the irrational ideas of Haddad in the debate on ethics classes in schools.

    Also Cardinal Pell whom Robert ought to realise may be open to criticism in terms fo his public remarks on policy issues was wrong on private schools funding.

    Mark Latham was correct about the Howard government funding too much the wealthy private schools.

    It is the poor suburban parochial schools who need the help, along with the public schools.

    I oppose Haddad’s uncritical silence on this issue of schools’ funding.
    I am glad not a yes man nor a messenger boy. The Aussie way.

    Some people are curiously proud to be sucks.

  232. There is no shame in voting for those ALP candidates who are moderates. Ed Husic is a moderate and has a good union background.

    This poor man was viciously attacked by the Liberal candidate, David Barker- whom even Tony Abbott and the Liberal Party were disgusted with:
    http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2010/s2994694.htm

    Does Robert Haddad support moderate Muslims who live in peace and are living out the social teaching’s tenets through unionism? Or does Mr Haddad prefer the David barker types?
    On second thoughts, I should have voted ALP number 1 Ed Husic ! My mistake in hindsight.

  233. Pot Stirrer

    Ed Husic is a good bloke. Probably would vote the right way on a number of issues. As is Hutchins.

    You have to seriously wonder about these online pro-lifers who don’t see that.

    I don’t blame you for voting that way.

  234. Chris Curtis, vice-president, Victorian branch, DLP, 1976-78 sums up how the DLP is not the same today. I agree with him.

    I also agree with Stephen Crittenden’s views which are more intellignet than those offered by Haddad at ABC’s Big Ideas on the ethics in schools issue:
    http://www.abc.net.au/tv/bigideas/stories/2010/11/30/3079537.htm

  235. Much of the ‘pro-life’ patois is your typical poseurs and spiritual pride/superman syndrome. Some of the poor buggers are sincere, others just just anti-Labor and loving the high ground of finger pointing whilst being unwilling to joina major party themselves. And when they do they choose the Libs more often than not. A sick culture. Most sane middle of the road Catholics have no truck with this madcap milieu.

  236. Pot Stirrer

    I know what you mean. Finger pointers are like cancer to political parties. They discourage growth, and you’re right, they are quite sickening really. I mean this new crop of young libs and young labor wouldn’t know the first about having to do it tough

  237. Stephen Sensible

    I wonder if Jesus Christ is enough of a BLOKE for Michael Webb?

    All these posts just show how bitter, twisted and hypocritical this bloke is.

    One day he’s lambasting others for their supposedly “unChristian” criticisms of him and the next he’s telling off others, like Robert Haddad (you may not consider him to be a “BLOKE” Micheal but he certainly he has always been a GENTLEMAN which is more than I can say for you) to get out of his way at the DLP for being too pro-life (how can you ever be too pro-life?) or for being “holyjoe moral[ists]”.

    You may Michael like to consider the words of Christ himself next time you feel the need to criticise others and first look to your own (and many) shortcomings:

    “You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”

    Luke 6:42

  238. Robert Haddad might be alarmed to know that a recetnly retired bishop voted for Steve Hutchins,ALP in the Senate.
    Oh what shock, horror, oh Robert- you list of sinners is increasing. Oh what a burden you carry.

  239. Michael Webb

    On the 8th Ocober 2009 ALAN GUILFOYLE wrote to me to say he had RESIGNED FROM ELECTORATE OFFICER POSITION TO DECLARE SUPPORT FOR DLP FEDERAL SECRETARY JOHN MULHOLLAND IN RESPONSE TO UNCONSTITUTIONAL ‘RE-CONVENED’ DLP CONFERENCE FOR 17TH OCTOBER 2009.

    What followed was a medium length email in which several reasons were given.

    Alan used to work for the former member of the Legislative Council of Victoria.

  240. Paul De Graaff

    @Michael Webb: There is plenty of shame in voting for the ALP when it no longer represents those it purports to. The ALP federally did a complete about face on a number of issues and the ink was barely dry on the ballot paper. That is not in the interest of the working man. Furthermore the Greens do not represent the worker and the alliance with that party shows the ALP is prepared to debase itself to any level to keep power. Again that represents self interest not interest in the workers of this country. That is dishonest and John Howard was voted out for his perceived dishonesty, so the ALP should have thought very carefully about that decision. Julia will be mistaken to think we will forget easily. Same in Victoria. We don’t like secret deals and inaction. There have been an number of issues in public transport since the ALP took office ten years ago. For instance, there has not been one new tram purchased in that time despite the fact that at least a quarter of the fleet is not considered safe for the current use. Despite that, with 1.4bn dollars to spend the ALP thought the most important thing we needed was new tickets. How much more out of touch can you be.

  241. Robert Haddad

    Michael, since you mention the ethics issue which relates to my employment, I am entitled to use work time to respond to your comments. Your continued irrational taunts and insults only harm yourself and reinforce in the minds of the public your utter unsuitability for any public office. As for your assessment of the IQ2 debate, your judgement is prejudiced, to say the least, and flys in the face of all the positive remarks I have received from members of the public, the Anglicans, Brig. Jim Wallace of Australian Christian Lobby and the Cardinal. Also, if I performed as badly as you wish to state, then why did 7% of the audience switch their votes at the end of the night to our side? Knowing the facts assists one to make proper, rather than rash statements. You may also oppose my ‘silence’ on school funding; nevertheless, the fact is that I haven’t been silent – you just haven’t heard what I have been saying. As for David Barker – I do not know him nor his opinions, so I am not in a position to make rash statements of the kind you dish out regularly. As for moderate Muslims – I have no problem living with moderate people of whatever background, so long as they respect the rights and freedoms aof others. As for your position on the ethics trial- I am not suprised that you uncritically support ALP policy here, for all your statements indicate that at heart you are (thuggish) ALP, not moderate DLP. As for all the ‘trophies’ you hold up joining your DLP – you can hold whoever you like up, but none of these same people with be able to assist your cause come the final determination of the NSW Electoral Commission. When that day comes, the time for bragging, abuse, insults, bullying, rash judgement and hysteria will come to an end.

  242. Stephen Crittenden, formerly of the ABC’s Religion Report, in my opinion, defeated you in the debate over ethics.
    As for the ABC I do not understand and am unaware of ALP or myself as you so imply as being “thuggish”.
    Gosh, if Cardinal Pell is allowing you to make such emotive statements on an official level, which you have taken it upon yourself to so do, just keep ’em coming, because sooner or latter, I think the Cardinal and the Chancery will need to act against you for your aggressive tone and false implciations.
    Who are YOU, as a SERVANT in the employ of the people in the pews, to be dishing it out?

    You are not a modern day Augustine dealing with heretics Robert, so you really do need to simmer down.

    Most Catholics have no fragility nor fear in the area of ethics.
    The Catholic Faith will continue to be taught in the schools, even with ethics classes.
    Your attempt at a slam dunk apologetics style in your clsoing sentence indicates your aggression. I don’t need to heed your inferences just because you work at the CCD Robert Haddad.

  243. Dear paul, it might surprise you to know that I share many of your concerns about the ALP. One way forward to is to participate. Remember the DLP only had a recent spurt and was largely off the landscape a generation ago. In fact most left the scene back in 1978.
    In the meantime, there is nothing stopping you or anyone else from joining the ALP, getting real and trying to improve things. This is where reality is at and has always been. We are the leaven in the dough, influence by direct action, permeation and participation. DLP is good strategically to keep them honest however, there is the other valid option of joining the ALP.
    Let not peer pressure and snobbery get to you mate.

  244. The Catholic Faith will continue to be taught in the schools, even with ethics classes.
    Your attempt at a slam dunk apologetics style in your clsoing sentence indicates your aggression. I don’t need to heed your inferences just because you work at the CCD Robert Haddad.

  245. DLP fan

    Robert, we’re on your side here. We can tell you’re a gentleman. Webb is (I hate to say it) insane.

  246. Pot Stirrer

    When in the NSW Electoral Commission going to hand down their decision about this party that has quite clearly lost its way?

  247. The Ranga.

    i read the article about a resurgent DLP, then i proceeded to read the Comments about the personalities of within or associated with the DLP.
    Am I reading this correct? A person named Michael Webb was/is NSW president yet he launches into diatribes and spews vitriol at people.
    I was told by an NSW colleague who had recent experience with Michael Webb , that the DLP was doomed to stagnation with Webb as President. This is such a traverstiy as the ALP has forgotten families and workers and there is a real oppurtunity for the DLP to make political in roads. Can something be done????

  248. Sans Souci

    It doesn’t appear to be a correct reading. From all appearances a healthy and passionate political discussion is being offered.

    Not many takers to the offering. Loads of resentment.

    The seamless garment is family connected with a transformed Labor.

    A revival of traditions disconnected from any tangible association with the larger Labor Party- the ALP is doomed to stagnation.

  249. Sans Souci

    A Party lost its way through choice. The choice of reviving traditions from history without connection with contemporary Labor traditions.
    Social conservative families connecting with the wider Labor Movement is a model that exists. Joe De Bruyn and even left of centre unions provide a good path to social and financial improvement if build upon.

  250. Sans Souci

    Off with his head? Per che Senor DLP Fanatico? Que cosa?

    Contemporary interaction with the Labor Movement should be a seamless garment for the DLP.
    The man you would like expelled offers ideas that are rejected without sufficient reflection.

  251. Forgotten Families

    Assumption by The Ranga that only the ALP is responsible for forgotten families and workers.

    This means that the Coalition is wonderful and is getting right behind workers to rack up penalty rates in enterprise agreements for work done outside of split shifts, call-ins, and beyond the standard working hours- be it a 35 hr, 37.5 hr or 38 hr divisor, right?
    Wrong is The Ranga.

  252. The Ranga

    It seems that Sans Souci is either a Michael Webb Sycophant or Michael Webb himself.
    It appears Mr Webb has highlighted what would appear to be the bleeding obvious. That the DLP has a close interaction with Union Movements.
    Is this not the case? if not then why has the DLP not established closer union ties?

  253. The Ranga

    @Forgotten Families: Forgotten Families I am only worried about a party that use to care about families and workers. A party was there for the average worker. Not a coalition party that is only worried about the big end of town.

  254. Sans Souci

    It seems that The Ranga is a confused follower of The Confused.
    Or might be one of the legion of confused.

    Why is anyone with a POV categorised as being a sycophant?

    The DLP has no current connection with the union movements in any State of Australia. That connection died when the SDA and the Clerks re-joined the ALP.

    Why do you say that the connection is “the bleeding obvious” and then in your concluding paragraph show your uncertainty?

    Mr O’Donohue and friends appear to be at the coalface.
    You could take positive steps to being in touch as they have done and continue to do as a given for regular Labor men.
    It is not a monopoly only for them.

  255. The Ranga

    Who is Michael O’Donohue? What is his place in this party?

    I was highlighting the obvious of a natural fit between DLP and Unions that would appear ‘bloody obvious’ to me but Sans Souci is this the reality?

    I am sure after reading these blogs from Michael Webb that Sans Souciyou is Mr Webb! The rhetoric is uncanny.

  256. Robert Haddad

    The Webb remnant are not at any ‘coal face’ re trade union affiliation. In my two and a bit years association with their executive there was never a moment’s discussion about being linked or forming an association with any trade union. Nothing was done in the past (July 08 – August 10) and I feel assured nothing will be done by them in the future.

  257. Sans Souci

    Did I refer to Mr O’Donohue as Michael? Ranga you’re slipping up.

    Boo hoo.

  258. The Ranga

    Dear Robert Haddad,

    So is Webb out? Why did he leave/get removed?

    How big is the DLP in NSW. Who is the DLP president?

    Thanking you in advance.

  259. Sans Souci

    Mr O’Donohue and Mr Webb are financial members of their respective unions. Have been all their working lives.

    Could Mr Haddad explain his great efforts on the Executive and in the Bradfield by-election?

    Mr Webb and Mr O’Donohue got a sun tan that day, worked earlier that week in preparation and organised lists of people to ‘person’ the booths.
    Mr Haddad gave half a day and he is thanked sincerely for this time.
    Mr Boutros Z didn’t assist on the day nor pay his membership however let us give him the benefit of the doubt as much as we give the benefit of the doubt to Queensland branch who are yet to register for State elections. Mr Haddad might just like to inform them with equal displeasure why they have not however let’s give them the benefit of the doubt and not interfere nor call for a regional branch in QLD to put them out.
    When is fair’s fair for our Robert?
    South Australia got registration without numbers through a legal loophole. (good luck to them by the way). The law in SA has now changed and next year they will have to find hundreds fo members otherwise they lose registration.
    Will Robert call for them to be expelled for any performance issues like in NSW? Bar humbug.

  260. The Ranga

    @Sans Souci: @Sans Souci: Sans Souci you seem a suspicious person. I am interested in the DLP and am researching about the party and saw a Mr Michael O’Donohue listed as an officer for the party on the NSW electoral commission website.

  261. The Ranga

    So is Webb and O’Donohue the leaders of NSW DLP?

  262. Robert Haddad

    Ranga: Messrs Webb and O’Donoghue were formerly expelled by the Federal Executive of the DLP in a later dated 18th April, 2010, a copy of which was posted to me. The grounds for the expulsion related to “gross disloyalty” and interfering in the affairs of another State Branch, namely Victoria. This is, however, the hotly contested issue, especially as the same Webb/O’Donoghue do not recognise the authority of the Vic and Federal Executives. In the end, it will be up to the Victorian Supreme Court to determine who is the legitimate Secretary of the Vic DLP and the NSW Electoral Commission to determine which is the legitimate NSW DLP. Sadly, a terrible mess, but hopefully all will be resolved for the Vic, NSW and Federal DLPs over the next few months.

  263. Land of the Living

    The Remnant may be found at Lumen Verum. The bulk of the earlier Remnant departed Robert’s talks years ago.
    Once they read the very good apologetics books and not a few tapes, they solved life’s riddles and are now at home around the ‘burbs pretty satisfied.
    Let us pray that many of them have
    gone on to greater endeavours such as genuine faith development as adults.

    Some of the Remnant have informed the Despised One about the many charitable comments being made about him. Must be result of good spiritual direction and the apologetical frame of mind.

    I heard that Mr Webb enjoys Lebanese pastries at Belmore and strong coffee and mature people from that culture.

  264. Sans Souci

    Mr Ranga

    Research is encouraged.
    The answer is near at hand.

  265. Robert Haddad

    Sans Souci – you reveal too much not to have been involved with the Webb/O’Donoghue executive. You are sounding more like Michael Webb with each successive post. Is this another case of multiple personalities? If you are not Michael Webb, then the challenge is to post under your actual name rather than a pseudonym.

  266. Sans Souci

    One should not be ‘without a care’ Mr Haddad. You have new shoes to fill as part of your belief in the position claimed at Homebush.
    Beware of Rangas.

  267. Sybil

    Mr Haddad, I am Sybil and I remember.

  268. Ushering John

    Come to my office Robert and please explain.

  269. Robert Haddad

    Ushering John = Sybil = Sans Souci = Webb = embarrassment = public scandal = DLP into disrepute. I thought I was debating an adult, sadly that is one delusion I am willing to admit.

  270. The Ranga

    Well three things are obvious

    1. Sans Souci is Michael Webb

    2. The DLP in NSW is in turmoil

    3. Being involved in the DLP with either a Mr Webb or O’Donohue as leaders would be a waste of time.

    Better off sticking with a an ALP.

  271. Ushering John

    Get your brief ready Mr Haddad.
    No man should treat another Australian man like some serf to a Caliph.

    The need to have others submit might be the way of life east of Greece but it doesn’t work Down Under son.

    Right and wrong apologetics- win or lose format will not help you get out of your mess when you will need to face up to your patronising tones and treatment of the faithful lay public.
    The more that you write, the more you will have to answer for regardless of what you think His Eminence thinks.
    Archdiocesan emplyment is not a game nor an office to be used against those who you might feel are spiritually low rent and in need of your advice.

  272. Ushering John

    Ranga are you trying out apologetical method? Keep up with Belfield apologetics and you will keep on making great horse sense.

  273. Public Scandal

    Robert Haddad making comments about the laity from Polding House= scandal.

    A man should not treat another man in the higher than thou manner. That is the job of the Episcopate and you have not been ordained.
    Polding House is the servant of the laity under His Eminence. A man of Robert’s academic creds should be of assistance yet the penny doesn’t always drop even for academics.
    Mr Webb will not be treated like a serf by a Caliph. It is not on in Australia.

  274. Robert Haddad

    “The need to have others submit might be the way of life east of Greece but it doesn’t work Down Under son.” – another patronising and racist stereotypical comment by our resident multiple personality. Are we back to the behaviour of Oct. 2009?

  275. Robert Haddad

    Ushering John = Sybil = Sans Souci = Webb = embarrassment = public scandal = DLP into disrepute: for the record, I am posting my comments from home, not Polding Centre. This is my last post on this thread. As for Rangas, well, it was you, not I, who second preferenced her. I await the judgement of the NSW Electoral Commission to initiate an exciting and hopeful future for a united and rational DLP. Goodbye.

  276. Public Scandal in your dreams

    No. Where we are back to is your arrogance that you feel you can mete out to other people.
    You will not ge away with it Haddad.
    My remarks do not matter but yours do because of your position.

    Your attempts to humiliate people will not be tolerated.

    With every crescendo of remarks, the Chancery will eventually silence you.

    This is not a crusade moment for anyone Robert. It is some strange will-filled beahviour in which others must submit, fall into line and who asks that people like Mr Webb ask Mr O’Donohue to fall in behind new teams and other such nonsense.
    It is time for you to go away because the Chancery has been notified and are watching.

    Your former friend thinks you do not ‘get it’ either. He also will not submit and he is not a racist.
    He is Lebanese Australian.

    Boy you are slow.

  277. Suspicious

    I might have possibly be wrong about Mr. Webb always having the last post…it looks like Ushering John and Sans Souci might be going for the title…it just seems odd that Webb has let the last 23 posts go by without a contribution…maybe he’s gone to the toilet…very strange…I just can’t work it out…

  278. Public Scandal in your dreams

    Haddad said:
    “I await the judgement of the NSW Electoral Commission to initiate an exciting and hopeful future for a united and rational DLP. Goodbye. ”

    Regardless of result, in your dreams. You are better off taking over the Christian Dem Party and getting a pertetual poor result til retirement whilst prefencing the Liberal Party as this is what that bull act is about.

  279. Suspicious

    I am thinking out aloud if I am Suspicious. And if my treatment is according to AFL or RL.

  280. Michael Webb

    Mr Haddad’s snide remark about there being a problem or an inferred embarassment for voting ALP- even as a second preference demonstrate that he is giving himself more rope.

    Cardinal Pell addressed an AWU ( ALP affiliated union) Conference.

    Has he sinned Mr Haddad?

    Now don’t answer that because you made referecne earlier today ( was that from work?) about ALP.

    Michael O’Donohue has expressed today in direct terms to me that he is totally non-plussed by voting for the ALP by way of preference after the DLP.
    I concur.

    The Chancery will soon make a decision. As a unionist I want you to keep your job Robert and to learn that in your position you are able to lead some impressioanable people unwittingly to hold me and O’Donohue in wrongful disdain.
    The Chancery will act soon.
    I have spoken by phone and they are seeking reports.
    Rights of wrongs here are all besides the point Robert.
    It is about the position you hold. There are parameters that must be fulfilled.
    I have mentioned this to you all along but you keep knocking back the obvious.
    This is not Melbourne in 1955; this is Sydney 2010.
    Church men cannot address, advise publicly, have the slightest tone or perception of condescension towards members of the laity- family men like myself and good blokes like Mike O’Donohue will eventually act.
    We had hoped the penny had dropped.
    It will not go on because I will begin making appointments and these will go to Rome if any imperious snub is received however I think that regardless of Pell’s perceived reputation I will address him as one man to another-with firmness and with expectation that a family man will not put up with this.
    Mr O’Donohue has now developed a reputation for increased resolute firmness in his new dealings as of last week with various authorities lay and otherwise.

  281. Suspicious

    Now Webb seems to be posting as me! Curiouser and curiouser…

  282. Suspicious

    CAUTION ALL THREAD VIEWERS! It is probably a good idea to dismiss any further post on this thread as I think it is a grave possibility that Mr. Webb could post scandalous statements posing as someone else…even as Mr. Haddad!

  283. Robert Haddad

    Signing back on:

    Ushering John = Sybil = Sans Souci = Webb = embarrassment = public scandal = DLP into disrepute:

    My brief is ready.

  284. Hyperventilation

    CAUTION ALL THREAD VIEWERS! It is probably a good idea to dismiss any further post on this thread as I think it is a grave possibility that Mr Suspicious could post scandalous statements posing as someone else…even insincerely!
    As an actor Suspicious is feigning real concern to all thread viewers!

  285. Michael Webb

    Public scandal rubbish Haddad.
    I’ll tell you what is scandal.
    The lies on the dlp.org.au website that relate to accusations against me and Michael O’Donohue.

    You should put up or shut up you lot.

    DLP members give money to John at a faster rate than they give it to you.

    That is not my problem.

    Now if you have a problem, then the auditor who adheres to NSW law would love to hear from you.

    As for adjudication between John M and any from your bunch. Once again, that is none of my concern.

    I couldn’t give two shits.

  286. Michael Webb

    I have received statements from people very concerned by what they see which has adversely affected them in terms of by what is written about myself and Michael O’Donohue on the dlp.org.au ‘nsw’ section.
    Some needed explanation and were OK; others sent me private and public hate speech and that is not OK. Several attended at Homebush.

    So don’t talk to me about scandal Robert Haddad.

  287. Paul De Graaff

    @Michael Webb: You know as well as I do that changing the ALP is unlikely since their values are significantly different to my own. I seek to have a good person in office. Someone who is honest and trustworthy. The perception of the ALP is that it seeks power for its own sake, at any cost. Where were the members saying “No alliance with the Greens?” When did they decide that a carbon tax would be good for the working man? When they got into bed with the Greens! I am also concerned that if the ALP had honest people in office, it would not need to threaten them with the loss of preselection to sway a vote. No, that is a bullying tactic which should have no place in politics and the development of debate. Politics should welcome debate, particularly on issues that are, literally, life and death. The ALP stymies debate even among its own. No Michael, I believe it is a grave mistake to sleep with the devil and think you will achieve change. You simply become another form of the evil. The ALP has had great leaders and great men in the past but they’re nowhere to be found now. They’re like Julia, lawyers and businessmen and such. There are no workers amongst them. They are themselves, that which they claim to despise. And their committment to the working man is nominal. What change have you effected when a party can rescind its stated direction before the election is final? How can it promise hundreds of millions of dollars to projects it has not discussed to receive the support of one person, who does not even have the fortitude to represent their constituency. How can it commit billions of dollars to projects without a cost benefit analysis? How can it form a committee of debate when you first have to agree with the outcome? How can there be an outcome before there is debate? The ALP appears to be rolling in the swill of the public purse at the expense of those it says it represents. The ALP shown us all that it represents only the ALP. At the moment you would seem to be just another part of that problem of self indulgence.

  288. Paul De Graaff

    Michael I’m trying to work out your position. I’m reading that you are or were on the DLP exec in NSW. What is your current interest in the DLP? I have to assume it is Nil otherwise you would not be advising me to vote ALP. If you have no interest then your opinions are really pointless aren’t they? They are only valid as a means of discussion. Yet what you have been writing does not indicate someone who is intersted in discussion. Can you clarify your position for me?

  289. Michael Webb

    Dear Paul,

    Many of the issues you raise about the ALP I share with you.
    That is not the point.

    The point all along has been for like-minded people of life who also happen to be opposed to neo-liberal economics to reform the ALP from within.
    So when I say tha a vote for the ALP in preferencing after voting DLP is perfecting a good thing for unionists. That is what the letter ‘L’ stands for in both the A_L_P as well as the D_L_P.
    Our opponents on the far far Left would be having all of their prejudices confirmed by seeing that many DLP supports today are basicaly pr-life economic liberals.
    The traditional and original Groupers were pro-life economic nationalist socialisers in accordance with the ALP pledge.

    If you would like I can refer you the writings of Jack Kane and Frank Rooney the original Groupers of NSW.

    Paul, I otally agree with you about the wastage of public monies by the ALP and of the anti-life stuff.
    The DLP, even if you go and ask Tony Zegenhagen, will tell you that the DLP’s traditional stance, is to respect DLP voters, who after giving the DLP a number 1 vote in ballots- have the freedom to choose their own preferences after that.

    In other words nothing has changed.

    Paul, currently the Nick William’s group have sen in correspondence with the NSW Electoral Commission after they held their very small conference. They are seeking recognition for registration and the Registered Officer positions.
    Michael O’Donohue the Secretary of the NSW Branch is opposing their application.
    The NSW Electoral Commission’s staff are aware of the long running issues in Victoria and will work through this application very carefully I would suppose.

  290. Michael Webb

    Paul, about me being a part of the problem of self-indulgence, I can confirm for you the official position of the NSW Secretary Michael O’Donohue.
    Feel free to contact him and he will tell you the exact opposite.

    Michael O’Donohue is a member of an ALP affiliated union as am I. This is called mixing in with one’s fellow mankind. It is not self-indulgence. In fact is the the very opposite of Catholic snobbery found in a very miniscule section of ultra conservative Catholics.

    The National Civic Council that I joined in the 1980s was heavily involved in ALP union election campaigns under Bob O’Connell , Mr Santamaria’s right ahnd man in NSW.
    So Paul, what you are speaking of belongs in a parallel universe that I have never visited.

  291. Michael Webb

    Dear Paul,

    The NCC tht I knew in the 1980s and 90s were involved in union elections ( ALP affiliated unions).
    Bob O’Connell,right hand man to Bob Santamaria was perfectly OK will this.
    The SDA AND CLERKS re-entered the ALP. No problem.
    One must avoid the Caiaphas syndrome of non-involvement on the pretext of somehow being defiled by entering the ALP. It is there for the taking. It is a big bad world I agree Paul however, one must participate. Change for the better in the ALP will not occur like instant coffee. It will take time.

  292. Paul De Graaff

    Can’t agree Michael. I think the quickest way to a politician’s heart is through the ballot box. That seems to be the only “reason” they listen to. As to Victoria I have no doubt that the Supreme court decidied who holds what positions. I still think that court action was a folly and as much as I like John as a person, his decisions were ill advised and contrary to the wishes of the membership.

  293. Michael Webb

    Frank Rooney, former Assistant Secretary of the NSW Branch of the ALP, the original Grouper in NSW,( later DLP & helper of DLP Senator Jack Kane) said:

    ” I remember well one occasion of a meeting with the Hierarchy. I was expressing a view about a particular organisational matter and Dr ( Father) Paddy Ryan was constantly interrupting me. Cardinal Freeman finally turned on the good Dr. and said, “shut up Paddy, all you talk about is theory. These men( the laity) are out in the field ( the ALP & the unions). They know what it’s all about”.

    There is nothing more realistic than involvement.

  294. Paul De Graaff

    I agree with that. However can you show one aspect of how your involvement has changed the ALP? You have simply become a part of their movement. You had no say in the decisions of caucus or the cabinet in the reversal of their policy at the Federal Election did you? Neither you nor the rest of the membership mattered. And yet you cling to a forlorn belief that you will make a difference. The DLP may not have a significant following nor significant power, but it has a good man in the Federal senate and it also had a good man in Peter Kavanagh at state level. The ALP spat in your faces and laughed at the gullibility of members like yourself. My wife stood and spoke the message that the ALP no longer represents the working man. It no longer represents respect or decency and a few people heard that message and said we support you. We will not give our vote to liars and spin doctors and those who would deceive us. What did you achieve? You seem to be in politics to win power or get change. We are in politics to try and get decency back into parliament. You may mock us but we are no less earnest in our efforts. We at least stand openly to be counted or mocked for something. You are just another person making up the numbers in the ALP. Unfortunately as you clearly have nothing positive or worthwhile to share with us, I fear our conversation is at an end.

  295. Michael Webb

    Dear Paul,

    You sound embittered and angry.
    Change in any party takes palce through greater involvement of people of like-mind.
    The ALP is Australia’s major Labor party and as such is there for the taking and for improvement.
    Please remember Paul that the Coalition is not not going to close abortion clinics if they come to power. They would never make an announcemnt publicly either. So please get real Paul.

    Workers gained more in pay increases ( ‘for workers’ ‘for families’) during the Hwke-Keating years despite my opinion that mos of those enterprise agreements were too boss friendly. But then again the more ‘right wing’ a union or partyeven the ALP tends to be more Coalition minded which might be right up your alley.

  296. Michael Webb

    Paul, your last two sentences show false imputation and arrogance. “Clearly”.

  297. Michael Webb

    Paul,
    Do you share your the judgment you have of me with say the SDA’s Joe De Bruyn and Greg Donnelly?
    Or ALP’s Shoppie Senator Farrell in South Australia etc etc?

    How much shall we all hop into the ghetto with you for you to be a happy man?

  298. Michael Webb

    Paul,
    To wax theological with you, original sin affetcs decency in parliament. Yes, to be effective one must “win power” as you clearly seem to despise just like the old far Left of the ALP.
    Get real about your fellow man Paul. We are all affected by original sin. The more you are apart form them, rather than joining in and getting real- the more the Scriptural verse that “I am not like the rest of mankind” those sinners mentality can blind and keep people in self-referencing ghettos.
    The DLP is only good for strategically a few upper hosue seats, preferencing in lower house to influence bit here and ther but no more. The rest is all about the ALP if one claims to be a Labor man ( or woman).
    Joe De Bruyn has the right idea as do many others whom you have not met. Mix with them. Get a feel for life outside the ghetto.

  299. The Ranga.

    what a arrogant and spiteful point of view mr Webb.

  300. Michael Webb

    As one red head once asked, and which I now ask of you ‘the Ranga’:

    ‘please explain?’ or why aren’t you actually addessing the points raised?

  301. Michael Webb

    To be ‘real Labor’ as claimed in the DLP advertsone must agree with the ALP pledge on socialisation.
    Many ALP and DLP people do not hold to it.
    Now the Original Grouper in NSW Frank Rooney wrote that:
    “Nationalisation of the means of production, distrubution and exchange- this was the much vaunted policy that was supposed to make us distinct from all other parties. That contention really is a joke.”

    Today we have DLP policy that is opposed ( and proud of all things ??!!!) to the mining super profits tax.

    Shame !
    At least in NSW the DLP Branch here under O’DOnohue’s leadership is in favour of this good and principled REAL Labor tax.
    God Bless Frank Rooney and Michael O’Donohue.
    Real Labor; not impostors.

  302. Paul De Graaff

    No! Not embittered and angry. Just disappointed. You have the opportunity to be part of something which stands for something good. You choose instead to be one of the mob just making up numbers. I refer to things from the 1950’s but the party you support does not represent its 1950’s version in any way shape or form either. It is “labour” in name only. One cannot in all consciousness continue to support a party which so blatantly and wantonly wastes the money of its citizenry as does the Autralian Labour Party. And let’s not forget that the major part of that citizenry is the worker. To do so is to mimick the ridiculous rivalry of Ford and Holden; (which is based on a name only and not on the perforamce, quality and reliability of the product.)So I don’t despise those who exercise power, just those who seek it at any cost. As I’ve said and you have seen, those currently in Federal office were prepared to make any debasement and forsake any principles to have that power. You would appear to think this behaviour is good or even acceptable. I think it is reprehensible, deplorable! When you don’t stand for something, you are open to anything. What did Mr Rooney have to say about this type of person? What did Frank McManus have to say? What about Bob Santamaria? These latter names were people who stood for something. Your current crop of “leaders”, (and I use the term very loosely since they show no leadership), stand for nought, ready to bend to whichever way the wind blows. Its hard to take seriously, criticism of a stance on mining tax when you sit in bed with the greens who propose a tax on us living and breathing, (called a carbon price). It’s also hard to take a mining tax seriously when your leaders have to talk with the mining companies first to see what the mining companies will let them charge. Michael because we are affected by sin doesn’t mean we should wallow in it, neither should it mean that we should demand nothing of our leaders. India and the Phillipines have both shown that power and change can be effected without joining the evil. Have you not yet seen that distinction? Can you not you see the possibility that can be acheived through good. Finally, “Get a feel for life outside the ghetto”? What sort of a comment is that from someone who thinks they have a political future? You don’t know me but suggest I live in a ghetto? I’m sure there is some sort of tenuous link in your mind but in public we call that an “in-joke”. I’m afraid I look very poorly on such a comment. I think it does nothing to give you credibility.

  303. Paul De Graaff

    @Michael Webb: One other little point Michael, the Liberals may not close abortion clinics but at least they stood to be counted against the bill that your leaders introduced to us as a benefit. Even the cesspit that is America refuses to allow the late term partial birth abortions freely available here. Nor do they allow those children which survive abortions to be put aside to die. You must have a thick skin to support such atrocities and talk to others of shame!

  304. Dear Paul, The Liberals legalised abortion many years ago in South Australia but you do not hear Labor Catholics getting all high and mightly and telling Liberal Party members to leave.
    Catholics are free as birds to join the party of their choice and to vote without diocesan voting lists.
    Father John Flader and other good theologians write on remote causes and effects of voting; and this is the way we must live.
    Paternalistic poo-hooing of fellow Catholics as to how they must vote or which party they ought to join is not on. Regardless of the cult status anyone places on BA Santamaria or anyone else.
    The problem is lack of participation; picking on the Labor isde and having more people abandon it wil not solve the issues in favour of life.
    http://www.catholicweekly.com.au/article.php?classID=3&subclassID=59&articleID=7261&class=Features&subclass=Question%20Time

  305. Paul, I share many of your hurts on issues mentioned. Once again, you are dreaming if you think the DLP will become a major party. Hence it is only good for strategic upper house seats. The rest is up to taking over ALP branches, not for overt culture war or pretend Labor economics but rather we should enteer as genuine Laborites on the side of local protectionism and bread and butter unionism. There is no easy way. It is a long haul. No point in blaming fellow Catholics Victorian style. SSPX and sedevacantists do that purity routine with real Catholics. Analogous to disconnected alleged ‘labor’ people claining to be ‘real labor’ whilst really being just pro life ( this part is good) but being in favour of lame weakened unions despite take of rank and file representation. Weak right wing unions have always been carried by the bulk of unions that sit in the centre of the spectrum anyway.

  306. The Greens got it right on the 40% non negotiable level of the mining tax. The ALP was weak and caved in; just as some in the DLP too would have caved in ; yet many in the DLP opposed the tax in principle. Hopeless !

  307. Pot Stirrer

    Go join the greens then if you feel so strongly

  308. Paul, why don’t you make a choice to either help those pro life ALP MPs and members or to write to them to tell them they are wasting their time? Which is it to be?

    Get real Paul.
    As for unprincipled parties, most of them are. Don’t single out the ALP for some curious special blame.

  309. ALP staffer

    Mr Michael Webb are you a good friend of Peter Westmore and the NCC?

  310. “ALP Staffer”- yes to both however,
    have the older school view, once held, whereby there were once stronger ties between the NCC and larger sections of the NSW Labor Movement and ALP. Sad to see this decline in favour of the pro life Liberal bible basher morals crusading and other forms of high horsery- all disconnecting with the humble average working family.
    Apeing American or local university set neo-con kids is self-indulgence, naive and self-referencing. It is to be rejected at every turn.

  311. Paul De Graaff

    Yes Michael, no doubt about it you have a thick skin. You know who pays the mining tax and all the other taxes; the end user; that is the working man. One way or another the taxes will be absorbed as costs and passed along to the end product and thereby to the consumer. Kirstie Marshall (ALP)garnered her forces to stop a development which threatened a wildlife area. A commendable stance. She spoke passionately against the Abortion Law Reform Bill. Why then do you think that in a “conscience” vote she abstained from the vote? She was a member of Parliament and couldn’t make a difference. In spite of that the DLP gave her preferences. I wouldn’t have. Anyone who is too meely mouthed to vote their conviction doesn’t deserve to be in Parliament. And don’t use that “others do it” defence to try to defend the reprehensible decisions your party has made. All you’ve done is to confirm what I’ve said before about the ALP. And then in your own words you support the Greens, whose policies your party aligned with and whose policies represent some of the most anti-family, anti worker views in our history. You seem to be trying to sit on both sides of the fence. But the alliance you party supports doesn’t let you have it both ways. As I’ve said before Michael I don’t simply support policy nor a party, I look to support good people. Decent people need our support not some blind historical and hysterical allegiance. That Michael is as “Real” as I need to be. “The problem is lack of participation; picking on the Labor side and having more people abandon it will not solve the issues in favour of life.” The ALP gave us some of the most extreme abortion laws in the world. Don’t cry “poor me” when you get picked on because of it! You want to stand up and be counted Michael, so stand up beside your heroes and be accountable for it!

  312. Pot Stirrer

    I’m thinking of running a book for the DLP Leadership result from the NSW Electoral Commission.

    Dr Simon McCaffrey / Nick Williams to lead $1.25

    Michael Webb/O’Donoughe to lead $3.50

  313. Sen Elect John Madigan indicated to a DLP gathering shortly after his election that “there are good people on both sides of politics” and that it was his job to talk to both sides. It is a job that the Blacksmith Senator will do well!

    To state that the DLP has not gone through the ‘ringer’ over the last few years is being very modest. But the reason people stay involved and work tirelessly is because they genuinely want the ‘common good for the commonwealth’

    It is this motivation that saw the election of Sen Madigan and has seen the party become resurgent. There is the detractors and nay sayers but the results speak for themselves… A Federal Senator elected after 35 plus years in the political wilderness is a great achievement.

    The DLP does not exist as part of a blocking strategy or as a preferencing funnel but soley to restore ‘commonsense’ to Australian Politics.

  314. ‘moving with energy’ and the Party becoming ‘resurgent’ is hype and talking things up.
    As Mr Peackock discovered a ‘souffle doesn’t rise twice’.
    One need not look past the very recent Victorian election result.
    The last shot from the locker has been fired.
    The occasional upper house seat and exerting influence upon the wayward ALP is the best one can hope for.

  315. Paul, the way to be counted is to do your best in the main party that really counts- the ALP; when the DLP is no longer around.
    being disdainful and too holy to join it- looking for perfect parties and people -is a failed strategy. The Lord doesn;t command the impossible; only that we try adn do our best- even in a party with faults. And there are many throughout the world; not just on the Labor side. Why oh why do you people leerrvvvv the other side so much? Obscurantism.

  316. DLP fan

    Jesus only had 12 disciples, Michael, and look how far the good news travelled. The ALP are lost and our society needs the DLP as a good alternative to evil policies.

  317. Michael Webb

    Dear ‘DLP fan’- get out your sandals then and prepare the way.
    You wil gain how much percentage to the average DLP vote?

  318. Anti-delusional

    The most delusional talk any person can hear comes from Catholics who still fantazise that the ALP is somehow the natural party for Catholics to join. This is the type of logic you hear -“Join the ALP and reform it from within.” Delusional. The ALP is responsible for the most reprehensible anti-life and anti-family pieces of legislation of the past 40 years. Whitlam, Wran, Brumby (among others) stood at the forefront of ramming through legislation supportive of the sexual revolution and its agenda. Look now at the pseudo-Catholic Kenneally: same sex register, same-sex adoption. Sadly, more to come from this decaying corpse before March next year. Thank God for parties like the DLP. Though small and never ever able to attain power, at least they are a natural home for Catholics who are working class and believe in the family. Let’s keep the DLP in the hands of moderate centrists, away from the loony Left and ALP lovers at heart.

  319. Michael Webb

    Dear Anti-Delusional,

    More than half the old DLP in 1978 voted to wind it up. Since that time people have had an opportunity to play their part in the membership of the ALP, the Libs or the Nats. Mentioning Wran and Whitlam etc shows that you do not accept that in life- that organisations have non-Catholic members and that political parties and other institutions are not directly controlled by the Church. So please get real about the fact that we need to mix with people-some of whose views and policies we do not accept. If I could wave a magic wand to overturn a lot of the bad polcies from some of the people you mention I would. But let’s get real please. If we are outnumbered, let’s not pin all blame upon those conscientious people who are trying their best.
    The ALP , like many other parties are not bad per se and need to be viewed as being influenced by the surrounding culture which has sadly accepted anti-life and politically correct nonsense.
    I share your views about Keneally etc.
    Now please think about the good work of De Bruyn, Greg Donnelly. Also Harradine who mainained his trade union affiliations through the Tasmanian Trades Hall etc.
    The DLP is meant to transcend Left and Right- so that means an end to your tagging people as being ‘loony Left’ and ‘ALP lovers’.
    On the issue of same sex registers- it has nothing to do with marriage. Even Peter Westmore sees no problem with it.

  320. Paul De Graaff

    Sorry Michael, my understanding is that Christ challenged us to “come follow me” He didn’t say “do your best.” He definately demands the impossible. I am a long way from perfect but to my mind the ALP doesn’t even make an effort on the way to decency. It is your free choice to support that. That is your right and you can exercise it however you wish. But Michael! “Why do you people…?” Surely you can do better than that?
    You still don’t get it. Sometimes voting is not just about winning a percentage of the vote. The membership of the ALP is not counted and our previous conversation have shown to you that you don’t matter and don’t make any difference where you are. You are just an amount of dollars. If the ALP is not anti life, we could not have ended up with some of the most extreme anti life laws in the world. Our laws would have simply matched everyone else. You said yourself “Politically correct nonsense”. But your leaders swoon over it and make more laws. 3,000 pages of new laws each and every year.
    I know exactly what the limitations of supporting the DLP are, Michael but I suggest you step back and take a real good look at the legislation your party has put through, because that shows what they stand for. Take a look at the programs they have enacted because that will show you their priorities. I repeat a simple one for you, at a time when more than a quarter of the biggest tram fleet in the world is considered to be unsafe for their current operations, your ALP thought the most important thing we could get was new tickets. Sadly, Michael, that has nothing to do with religion, nor ideoligies, nor committment to unionism, feudalism, rationalism nor any other “ism” you care to name. That is simply the decision making of a group who are completely out of touch with the needs of its citizens. It is folly to say such a group should continue to be in charge of the money because you like their ideology. First demonstrate fiscal responsibility, then you get to play with the piggy bank again.

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